Discussion:
sursound: flat panel speakers
Brian Lenharth,
1997-10-31 19:04:44 UTC
Permalink
At recent conferences in USA and England, a new kind of flat
loudspeakers has been presented. They are called Distributed Mode
Loudspeakers (DML), and work on a quite different principle than the
normal direct radiating units. The vibration of a thin, light plate is
made as random as possible, obtaining a sound radiation which is almost
perfectly omnidirectional (even at higher frequencies), mixed-phase
(this means that no interference occurs between different speakers or
even between the mirror images created by room reflections) and
incredibly efficient (nearly 50%, compared to 1-3 % of direct radiation
loudspeakers).
These flat units are inexpensive, and they can be easily incorporated in
the ceiling or in lateral walls. Their only limit is toward low
frequency (they start at about 100 Hz), but a single subwoofer can cover
very weel this range.
Due to the intrensically diffuse nature of the radiated sound, no "sweet
spot" occurs. Obviously the localisation of concentrated sound sources
is ligthly blurred, but at listening tests I founded these units very
pleasant and natural, particularly with classic music. I listened also
at discrete 5.1 soundtracks during the projection of a film sample
(actually the projection screen WAS the frontal loudspeaker), and the
surround effect was certainly better than with traditional loudspeakers!
I think that this kind of loudspeakers can be a good starting point for
introducing in our homes 8 discrete sound sources (or even more). It is
impossible to fit in my living room 8 normal sound boxes, I already have
problems with 2!
I think, anyway, that using DML loudspeakers the Ambisonics decoding do
not work anymore, because this is based too much on the phase of the
wavefronts: with DML there is no more the wavefront, nor the "phase" as
usually is defined... These loudspeakers really need some time to be
understood!
I have read some of the info on these new-fangled speakers. Maybe I'm just
'optimism challenged' but this all sounds too good to be true. It sure
would be nice to have a low-cost virtually perfect transducer that's
unobtrusive, highly efficient, etc. But I'm not holding my breath at
this point.
A new decoding theory is needed, based on the simple energy vector
panning of Ville Pulki (JAES June 97). I shall experiment this as soon
as I get 8 DML loudspeaker in my laboratory.
Let us know when you get them. Don't forget to put one on the ceiling, just
like they do at Holiday Inns.

bel
--
Brian E. Lenharth Tele: 206-335-2389
Lake Stevens Instrument Division/ MS10 FAX: 206-335-2828
Hewlett-Packard Co. ***@lsid.hp.com
8600 Soper Hill Road; Everett, WA 98205-1298
Richard Elen at Apogee Electronics,
1997-10-31 21:19:42 UTC
Permalink
I've seen some discussion of DML systems here. I would expect them to make
5.1 - or any level-only localized, speakers at 90 degrees or worse -
systems sound better as they would blur the holes between the speakers and
make you think there existed some images between them (mainly large, furry
and wambling ones).

Even so, I would like to hear them to determine whether or not they are
present in the consensus reality-model.

Bet they'd sound great in mono!

But blurring and localization don't mix, so I would not want to go there
with Ambisonics. Better just to use small speakers as close to a point
source as possible, with maximum dispersion. Surely a subwoofer would be
OK... hey, let's try some cheapo computer multimedia speakers!

--Richard Elen
At recent conferences in USA and England, a new kind of flat
loudspeakers has been presented. They are called Distributed Mode
Loudspeakers (DML)...
...Due to the intrensically diffuse nature of the radiated sound, no "sweet
spot" occurs. Obviously the localisation of concentrated sound sources
is ligthly blurred, but at listening tests I founded these units very
pleasant and natural, particularly with classic music. I listened also
at discrete 5.1 soundtracks during the projection of a film sample
(actually the projection screen WAS the frontal loudspeaker), and the
surround effect was certainly better than with traditional loudspeakers...
William Sommerwerck,
1997-11-01 01:45:20 UTC
Permalink
At recent conferences in USA and England, a new kind of flat
loudspeakers has been presented. They are called Distributed Mode
Loudspeakers (DML), and work on a quite different principle than the
normal direct radiating units. The vibration of a thin, light plate is
made as random as possible, obtaining a sound radiation which is almost
perfectly omnidirectional (even at higher frequencies), mixed-phase
(this means that no interference occurs between different speakers or
even between the mirror images created by room reflections) and
incredibly efficient (nearly 50%, compared to 1-3 % of direct radiation
loudspeakers).
One of the basic principles of good speaker design is the total
elimination of all resonances, NOT their "control" or "randomization."
There is no "free lunch" in this regard. The odds are that, with
familiar program material, these speakers probably sound like fecal
matter warmed over.
Angelo farina,
1997-11-01 13:58:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by William Sommerwerck,
One of the basic principles of good speaker design is the total
elimination of all resonances, NOT their "control" or "randomization."
There is no "free lunch" in this regard. The odds are that, with
familiar program material, these speakers probably sound like fecal
matter warmed over.
I had the possibility to listen at these new loudspeakers for about half
an our, and with a limited selection of source material. So my judgement
can be, obviously, quite wrong. Anyway, my subjective impression was not
bad at all. Certainly the sound is quite different from the one of
traditional loudspeakers, but it is probably much more natural. Most
natural sound sources radiate their sound energy with exactly the same
mechanism as these new loudspeakers, particularly in the case of musical
instruments.
I studied a lot violins, and I also tried to recreate "Virtual Violins"
(a paper of mine and two collegues will appear on this topics on the 4th
issue of the Journal of New Music Research, at the end of the year - You
can download some others of my papers on this topic on my web site). The
virtual violins sound unnatural because, when a loudspeaker radiates
their sound into the space, it is too much coeherent both from a spatial
point of view and from a temporal point of view.
I think that this new kind of loudspeakers can produce a sound field
much similar to the one actually produced by vibrating bodies.
I have to make tests on other kinds of sound sources, as human voice or
musical instruments such as sax, trumpet, flute, and so on.
I shall report on this list my results, as soon as I shall have some
samples of these loudspeakers and some blind subjective tests are done.
bye!
--
Angelo Farina
Dipartimento di Ingegneria Industriale
Universita' di Parma
Via delle Scienze - 43100 PARMA (Italy)

You can reach me at:
E-MAIL: mailto:***@pcfarina.eng.unipr.it
HTTP://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it
tel. +39 521 905854 - fax +39 521 905705
William Sommerwerck,
1997-11-02 21:42:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Angelo farina,
Post by William Sommerwerck,
One of the basic principles of good speaker design is the total
elimination of all resonances, NOT their "control" or "randomization."
There is no "free lunch" in this regard. The odds are that, with
familiar program material, these speakers probably sound like fecal
matter warmed over.
I had the possibility to listen at these new loudspeakers for about half
an our, and with a limited selection of source material. So my judgement
can be, obviously, quite wrong. Anyway, my subjective impression was not
bad at all. Certainly the sound is quite different from the one of
traditional loudspeakers, but it is probably much more natural. Most
natural sound sources radiate their sound energy with exactly the same
mechanism as these new loudspeakers, particularly in the case of musical
instruments.
A loudspeaker IS NOT, and MUST NOT BE, a musical instrument. The LAST
thing you want is a speaker that has a radiation pattern like a musical
instrument's.

Of course, these might very well be decent speakers. I really doubt it,
but you don't know for sure until you've heard them. I'm leaving a tiny,
tiny, tiny crack open in my mind.

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