Discussion:
(a little )help needed for ambisonics museum project
(too old to reply)
Søren Bendixen
2018-03-26 23:17:04 UTC
Permalink
Hello
I need some advice!

I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now (read: https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot lately, and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff to binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.

I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another DAW is difficult.

I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I started out working this way because I was asked to do 3 compositions/sounddesign playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).

Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is what want to do:

- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.

- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign will consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of the exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different audiofiles (managed by Qlab).

- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square but we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting movies on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly season related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and into headphones. and back.

The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave what I call the overall sounddesign.

So how do I do that..?

First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle of a storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like the idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker configuration..right?

So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific position)- and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same design…?

And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for headphones.

I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic too)
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) - (sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)

I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360

Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can handle ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>

I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and make all three in the same session…in logic.

I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for some odd stuff.

So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?

I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to says: Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does far more weird stuff than this :-)

I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.

Med venlig hilsen/Best regards

Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer

Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At Moesgaard Museum

New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017





Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
***@gmail.com
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud




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Jack Reynolds
2018-03-27 07:01:20 UTC
Permalink
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a quite confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in phase and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a signal towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a lower level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned equidistant from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air pressure at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic pattern. So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of the opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, unless you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?

I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper and have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which could be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which will give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same time. They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.

Hope this helps!

Cheers

Jack


Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now (read: https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot lately, and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff to binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another DAW is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I started out working this way because I was asked to do 3 compositions/sounddesign playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker placement.
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign will consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of the exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different audiofiles (managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square but we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting movies on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly season related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and into headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave what I call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle of a storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like the idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific position)- and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same design…?
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic too)
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) - (sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can handle ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and make all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to says: Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does far more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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søren Bendixen
2018-03-27 09:16:04 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jack
Thanks for feedback
My feedback belo

Sendt fra min iPad
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a quite confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in phase and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a signal towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a lower level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned equidistant from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air pressure at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic pattern. So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of the opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, unless you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I don’t know about vbap - cannot find a lot about it - any info, links to videos and plugin makers? Will vbap work in Reaper or/ and Logic Pro?
Sounds like ambisonics is no go re. Sweet spot and placing sounds.
Btw: when I wrote sound related to specific objects it is just “close to” specific object :-)
Maybe I should just stick with my “unusual” use of the standard surround configurations - using 7.1 and just using it in “circle mode”..hmm....
Post by Jack Reynolds
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper and have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which could be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which will give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same time. They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
PTHD is just too expensive, nuendo just expensive...
The other stuff might not be relevant if I don’t use ambisonics.
I think I get the bus thing but if I stay with 7.1 it will work in logic
Post by Jack Reynolds
Hope this helps!
👍
Post by Jack Reynolds
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now (read: https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot lately, and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff to binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another DAW is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I started out working this way because I was asked to do 3 compositions/sounddesign playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker placement.
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign will consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of the exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different audiofiles (managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square but we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting movies on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly season related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and into headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave what I call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle of a storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like the idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific position)- and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same design…?
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic too)
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) - (sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can handle ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and make all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to says: Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does far more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Augustine Leudar
2018-03-27 09:27:28 UTC
Permalink
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project with
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would be
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning - sweet
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a quite
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in phase
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a signal
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a lower
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned equidistant
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air pressure
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic pattern.
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of the
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, unless
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper and
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which could
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which will
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same time.
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot lately,
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff to
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another DAW
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I started
out working this way because I was asked to do 3 compositions/sounddesign
playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign will
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of the
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different audiofiles
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square but
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting movies
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly season
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and into
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave what I
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle of a
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like the
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific position)-
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same design…?
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic too)
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) -
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can handle
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and make
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does far
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Post by Søren Bendixen
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_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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jack reynolds
2018-03-27 09:32:18 UTC
Permalink
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.

J

http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/papers/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project with
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would be
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning - sweet
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a quite
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in phase
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a signal
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a lower
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, unless
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper and
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same time.
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot lately,
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff to
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3 compositions/sounddesign
playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square but
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly season
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave what I
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle of
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like the
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific position)-
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic too)
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) -
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can handle
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and make
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
-------------- next part --------------
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attachments/20180327/e3c21b73/attachment.html>
Post by Søren Bendixen
-------------- next part --------------
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Post by Søren Bendixen
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365

02036861372

3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR


www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones

www.sohovr.co.uk
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søren Bendixen
2018-03-27 12:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Very cool
Interesting that also genres influences the experience of stability and spatial quality


Sendt fra min iPad
Post by jack reynolds
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/papers/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project with
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would be
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning - sweet
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a quite
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in phase
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a signal
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a lower
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, unless
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper and
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same time.
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot lately,
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff to
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3 compositions/sounddesign
playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square but
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly season
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave what I
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle of
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like the
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific position)-
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic too)
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) -
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can handle
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and make
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
-------------- next part --------------
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Post by Søren Bendixen
-------------- next part --------------
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Post by Søren Bendixen
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
søren Bendixen
2018-03-27 12:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen

Sendt fra min iPad
Post by jack reynolds
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/papers/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project with
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would be
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning - sweet
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a quite
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in phase
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a signal
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a lower
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, unless
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper and
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same time.
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot lately,
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff to
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3 compositions/sounddesign
playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square but
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly season
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave what I
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle of
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like the
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific position)-
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic too)
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) -
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can handle
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and make
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Post by Søren Bendixen
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Post by Søren Bendixen
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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Augustine Leudar
2018-03-27 12:22:38 UTC
Permalink
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of cash
- its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally bespoke.
Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I dont know waht
the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/
papers/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning - sweet
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a quite
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a lower
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, unless
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) -
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Post by Søren Bendixen
-------------- next part --------------
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Post by Søren Bendixen
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Augustine Leudar
2018-03-27 12:25:34 UTC
Permalink
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price concerns -
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus system in
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact the
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a really
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it (theres
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I dont
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers.
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output)
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Post by Søren Bendixen
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_______________________________________________
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Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
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here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Post by Augustine Leudar
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Augustine Leudar
2018-03-27 12:28:11 UTC
Permalink
PS there are more flexible forms of amplitude panning - but Im trying to
keep it brief ! Fro circles Vbap the one I reckon.
Post by Augustine Leudar
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price concerns -
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus system in
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact the
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a really
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it (theres
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I dont
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8,
so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this
is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking
or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for”
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output) -
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Post by Søren Bendixen
-------------- next part --------------
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Post by Søren Bendixen
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
-------------- next part --------------
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_______________________________________________
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
-------------- next part --------------
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Søren Bendixen
2018-03-27 12:32:45 UTC
Permalink
👍
Post by Augustine Leudar
PS there are more flexible forms of amplitude panning - but Im trying to
keep it brief ! Fro circles Vbap the one I reckon.
Post by Augustine Leudar
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price concerns -
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus system in
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact the
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a really
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it (theres
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I dont
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8,
so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this
is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking
or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for”
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output) -
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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_______________________________________________
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
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Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards

Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer

Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At Moesgaard Museum

New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017





Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
***@gmail.com
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud




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Augustine Leudar
2018-03-27 12:36:21 UTC
Permalink
Learning Max would take much longer than learning Nuendo. Its not max for
live perse but the standalone software max msp which predated max for live
Im suggesting.
I wouldnt try and use live for this and Logic doesnt have enough busses.
What you are describing is the kind of work I do very often - Im afraid the
learning curve would be quite steep as you need to learn new software. I
would learn reaper.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I could afford Nuendo, but are nervous about time for learning.
Max—is it max for live?
I work daily in Ableton Live, but guess max is a different thing.
Logic has 8 ch busses.
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.25 skrev Augustine Leudar <
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price concerns -
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus system
in
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact the
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a
really
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it (theres
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont
Post by Augustine Leudar
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8,
so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic -
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this
is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters
up
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking
or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will
hear
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim
for” a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how
does
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Post by Søren Bendixen
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Post by Søren Bendixen
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
Post by Søren Bendixen
👍
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.28 skrev Augustine Leudar <
PS there are more flexible forms of amplitude panning - but Im trying to
keep it brief ! Fro circles Vbap the one I reckon.
Post by Augustine Leudar
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price concerns
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus
system in
Post by Augustine Leudar
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a
really
Post by Augustine Leudar
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it
(theres
Post by Augustine Leudar
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by søren Bendixen
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Post by Augustine Leudar
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Jack Reynolds
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would be
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Søren Bendixen
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Søren Bendixen
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Søren Bendixen
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the
Post by Søren Bendixen
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in
Reaper
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could
Post by Søren Bendixen
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
will
Post by Søren Bendixen
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try
MATHIAS
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8,
so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen <
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper.
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic -
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DAW
Post by Søren Bendixen
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Søren Bendixen
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this
is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one
related
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters
up
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
will
Post by Søren Bendixen
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the
Post by Søren Bendixen
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Søren Bendixen
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is
square
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Søren Bendixen
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking
or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
into
Post by Søren Bendixen
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will
hear
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim
for”
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition
crowd
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
a
Post by Søren Bendixen
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also
like
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output) -
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how
does
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
far
Post by Søren Bendixen
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
At
Post by Søren Bendixen
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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07889727365
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3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
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Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Augustine Leudar
2018-03-27 12:37:35 UTC
Permalink
Actually I've ehad a thought about how you could do it in Logic. Give me a
bell +44 (0) 7719456112
best
Gus
Post by Augustine Leudar
Learning Max would take much longer than learning Nuendo. Its not max for
live perse but the standalone software max msp which predated max for live
Im suggesting.
I wouldnt try and use live for this and Logic doesnt have enough busses.
What you are describing is the kind of work I do very often - Im afraid the
learning curve would be quite steep as you need to learn new software. I
would learn reaper.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I could afford Nuendo, but are nervous about time for learning.
Max—is it max for live?
I work daily in Ableton Live, but guess max is a different thing.
Logic has 8 ch busses.
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.25 skrev Augustine Leudar <
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price concerns
-
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus
system in
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact
the
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a
really
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it
(theres
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont
Post by Augustine Leudar
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change
because of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in
Reaper
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try
MATHIAS
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do
8, so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen <
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper.
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic -
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and
this is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one
related
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters
up
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this
part of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is
square
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people
walking or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will
hear
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim
for” a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition
crowd
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also
like
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how
does
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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here,
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <https
://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe here, edit
account or options, view archives and so on.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
Post by Søren Bendixen
👍
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.28 skrev Augustine Leudar <
PS there are more flexible forms of amplitude panning - but Im trying to
keep it brief ! Fro circles Vbap the one I reckon.
Post by Augustine Leudar
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price
concerns -
Post by Augustine Leudar
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus
system in
Post by Augustine Leudar
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a
really
Post by Augustine Leudar
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it
(theres
Post by Augustine Leudar
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by søren Bendixen
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Post by Augustine Leudar
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Jack Reynolds
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would be
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds <
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an
in
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change
because
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in
Reaper
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
will
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try
MATHIAS
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the
same
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do
8,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen <
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and
Reaper. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic -
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DAW
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
started
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and
this
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one
related
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two
other
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5
meters up
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
will
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this
part
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is
square
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by
projecting
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
movies
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and
just
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people
walking
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
into
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will
hear
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim
for”
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition
crowd
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
a
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also
like
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs
both
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the
same
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
design…?
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural
sound
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in
logic
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output) -
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how
does
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
far
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Post by Jack Reynolds
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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Post by søren Bendixen
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Søren Bendixen
2018-03-27 12:38:23 UTC
Permalink
now?
Post by Augustine Leudar
Actually I've ehad a thought about how you could do it in Logic. Give me a
bell +44 (0) 7719456112
best
Gus
Post by Augustine Leudar
Learning Max would take much longer than learning Nuendo. Its not max for
live perse but the standalone software max msp which predated max for live
Im suggesting.
I wouldnt try and use live for this and Logic doesnt have enough busses.
What you are describing is the kind of work I do very often - Im afraid the
learning curve would be quite steep as you need to learn new software. I
would learn reaper.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I could afford Nuendo, but are nervous about time for learning.
Max—is it max for live?
I work daily in Ableton Live, but guess max is a different thing.
Logic has 8 ch busses.
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.25 skrev Augustine Leudar <
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price concerns
-
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus
system in
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact
the
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a
really
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it
(theres
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont
Post by Augustine Leudar
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change
because of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in
Reaper
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try
MATHIAS
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do
8, so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen <
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper.
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic -
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and
this is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one
related
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters
up
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this
part of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is
square
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people
walking or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will
hear
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim
for” a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition
crowd
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also
like
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how
does
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Post by Augustine Leudar
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
Post by Søren Bendixen
👍
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.28 skrev Augustine Leudar <
PS there are more flexible forms of amplitude panning - but Im trying to
keep it brief ! Fro circles Vbap the one I reckon.
Post by Augustine Leudar
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price
concerns -
Post by Augustine Leudar
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus
system in
Post by Augustine Leudar
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a
really
Post by Augustine Leudar
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it
(theres
Post by Augustine Leudar
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by søren Bendixen
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Post by Augustine Leudar
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Jack Reynolds
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would be
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds <
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an
in
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change
because
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in
Reaper
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
will
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try
MATHIAS
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the
same
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do
8,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen <
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and
Reaper. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic -
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DAW
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
started
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and
this
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one
related
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two
other
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5
meters up
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
will
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this
part
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is
square
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by
projecting
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
movies
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and
just
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people
walking
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
into
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will
hear
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim
for”
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition
crowd
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
a
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also
like
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs
both
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the
same
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
design…?
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural
sound
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in
logic
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output) -
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how
does
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
far
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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here,
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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_______________________________________________
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards

Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer

Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At Moesgaard Museum

New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017





Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
***@gmail.com
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud




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Augustine Leudar
2018-03-27 12:40:16 UTC
Permalink
sure
Post by Augustine Leudar
now?
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.37 skrev Augustine Leudar <
Actually I've ehad a thought about how you could do it in Logic. Give me
a
bell +44 (0) 7719456112
best
Gus
Post by Augustine Leudar
Learning Max would take much longer than learning Nuendo. Its not max
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
live perse but the standalone software max msp which predated max for
live
Post by Augustine Leudar
Im suggesting.
I wouldnt try and use live for this and Logic doesnt have enough busses.
What you are describing is the kind of work I do very often - Im afraid
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
learning curve would be quite steep as you need to learn new software. I
would learn reaper.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I could afford Nuendo, but are nervous about time for learning.
Max—is it max for live?
I work daily in Ableton Live, but guess max is a different thing.
Logic has 8 ch busses.
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.25 skrev Augustine Leudar <
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price
concerns
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
-
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus
system in
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact
the
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a
really
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it
(theres
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
On 27 March 2018 at 13:22, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its
totally
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont
Post by Augustine Leudar
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of
amplitude
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds <
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an
in
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the
air
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change
because of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in
Reaper
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try
MATHIAS
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the
same
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do
8, so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen <
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but
hope I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and
Reaper.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic -
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways -
and I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and
this is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one
related
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two
other
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5
meters
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
up
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this
part of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is
square
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by
projecting
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of
mainly
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and
just
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people
walking or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer
circle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will
hear
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never
leave
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim
for” a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition
crowd
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also
like
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs
both
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the
same
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural
sound
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in
logic
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but
misses
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might
use
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how
does
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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here,
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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07889727365
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Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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account or options, view archives and so on.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
Post by Søren Bendixen
👍
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 14.28 skrev Augustine Leudar <
PS there are more flexible forms of amplitude panning - but Im trying
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
keep it brief ! Fro circles Vbap the one I reckon.
On 27 March 2018 at 13:25, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Augustine Leudar
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price
concerns -
Post by Augustine Leudar
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus
system in
Post by Augustine Leudar
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a
really
Post by Augustine Leudar
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it
(theres
Post by Augustine Leudar
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
On 27 March 2018 at 13:22, Augustine Leudar <
Post by søren Bendixen
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its
totally
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
dont
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of
amplitude
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Post by Augustine Leudar
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar <
Post by Jack Reynolds
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice
would be
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds <
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an
in
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you
pan a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the
air
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pressure
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8
mic
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pattern.
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change
because
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel
signal.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in
Reaper
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs
which
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
will
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try
MATHIAS
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the
same
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do
8,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
so
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen <
Hello
I need some advice!
I’ve been doing music/sounddesign for museums for a while now
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting
stuff to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my
speakers. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but
hope
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and
Reaper. I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DAW
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to
use
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging
every
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways -
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
started
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and
this
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one
related
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two
other
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5
meters up
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
will
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this
part
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this
sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is
square
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by
projecting
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
movies
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of
mainly
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and
just
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people
walking
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
or
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle
circle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
into
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer
circle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will
hear
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never
leave
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim
for”
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
a
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition
crowd
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it
is
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the
middle of
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
a
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also
like
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs
both
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the
same
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
design…?
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural
sound
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in
logic
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics
output) -
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but
misses
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in
different
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might
use
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
I’m sorry for taking your (holliday) time but I need someone to
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how
does
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
far
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition
“Gladiator”,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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here,
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Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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here,
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Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Søren Bendixen
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Søren Bendixen
2018-03-27 12:32:03 UTC
Permalink
I could afford Nuendo, but are nervous about time for learning.
Max—is it max for live?
I work daily in Ableton Live, but guess max is a different thing.
Logic has 8 ch busses.
Post by Augustine Leudar
PS I use Nuendo for sound design - but I understand your price concerns -
reaper would cover all these bases - I am unfamiliar with the bus system in
Logic. Amplitude panning is just your basic surround panner - in fact the
balance on your stereo is a form of amplitude panning. If you want a really
irregular speaker setup youll need max and know how to program it (theres
possibly other software available - thats just what I use)
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of
cash - its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I dont
know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of amplitude
panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/pape
rs/marentakis_2014c.pdf
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning -
sweet
Post by Augustine Leudar
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a
quite
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a
lower
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker,
unless
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers.
I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I
can
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I
do
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into
another
Post by Augustine Leudar
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle
will
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound
for
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output)
-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses
some
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Post by Augustine Leudar
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net <http://www.magikdoor.net/>
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Med venlig hilsen/Best regards

Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer

Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”, At Moesgaard Museum

New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017





Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
***@gmail.com
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud




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Marc Lavallée
2018-03-27 12:42:05 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 13:22:38 +0100
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of cash
- its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
The VBAP plugin for Puredata is the same than the one for Max/MSP, and
was written by Ville Pulkki who created the VBAP method:
https://puredata.info/downloads/vbap

I don't think that Puredata was difficult to learn; that said I started
in 1997 after 6 years of Max (from its beta version). PD is still being
used, even by younger adopters; I saw a data sonification demo last
week made by students in AI (who are not more intelligent than sound
designers). It lacks the shiny user interface of DAWs (and Max/MSP).

--
Marc
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of
amplitude panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/
papers/marentakis_2014c.pdf
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning
- sweet spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around
installations and occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has
a quite confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics
produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce
a lower level antiphase signal, which will work when you are
positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single
speaker, unless you are working at seventh order ambisonics,
with a 64 channel signal. So I am wondering why you are
considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched a customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can
also try MATHIAS Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural
decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only
do 8, so first order only, which won’t give you much positional
accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic
- the exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging
deep into another
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and
arranging every sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in
different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from
asoundeffect).
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is
speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two
other circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this
sounddesign will appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can
be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by
projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and
just the sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you
will hear layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so
you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds
in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) -
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
unsubscribe
here,
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
unsubscribe
here,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so
on.
--
07889727365
02036861372
3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR
www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
www.sohovr.co.uk
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Augustine Leudar
2018-03-27 13:08:01 UTC
Permalink
Yeah I think 6 years of max would help a lot for puredata. I've used
puredata for network 3d audio stuff its great but I think going from a Daw
to something like max or puredata might be a bit much with a project time
limitation.
Post by Marc Lavallée
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 13:22:38 +0100
Post by Augustine Leudar
16 speakers etc ? I would use Reaper if you dont want to spend lots of cash
- its also very flexible. I use max for this stuff as its totally
bespoke. Pure data is a free version but a steep learning curve and I
dont know waht the spatialisation tools are like.
The VBAP plugin for Puredata is the same than the one for Max/MSP, and
https://puredata.info/downloads/vbap
I don't think that Puredata was difficult to learn; that said I started
in 1997 after 6 years of Max (from its beta version). PD is still being
used, even by younger adopters; I saw a data sonification demo last
week made by students in AI (who are not more intelligent than sound
designers). It lacks the shiny user interface of DAWs (and Max/MSP).
--
Marc
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by søren Bendixen
Thanks
And impressive work!
Now I just need to now where to get vbap or another form of
amplitude panning - plug-ins and a hint re. DAW (reaper I guess..)
BR
Søren Bendixen
Sendt fra min iPad
Den 27. mar. 2018 kl. 11.32 skrev jack reynolds <
This is the first one i found, but it will give you an idea.
J
http://www2.spsc.tugraz.at/people/georgios/publications/
papers/marentakis_2014c.pdf
On 27 March 2018 at 10:27, Augustine Leudar
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project
with
Post by Augustine Leudar
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would
be
Post by Augustine Leudar
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning
- sweet spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around
installations and occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
On 27 March 2018 at 08:01, Jack Reynolds
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has
a quite confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics
produce an in
phase
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a
signal
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce
a lower level antiphase signal, which will work when you are
positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single
speaker, unless you are working at seventh order ambisonics,
with a 64 channel signal. So I am wondering why you are
considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper
and
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just
launched a customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can
also try MATHIAS Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural
decoding at the same
time.
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only
do 8, so first order only, which won’t give you much positional
accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
On 27 Mar 2018, at 00:17, Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next
project could be the one using ambisonics!…
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot
lately,
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff
to
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
binaural.
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic
- the exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging
deep into another
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo,
some sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and
arranging every sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in
different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3
compositions/sounddesign
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two
other circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this
sounddesign will appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can
be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square
but
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly
season
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and
just the sound of a cold cold morning..).
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you
will hear layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so
you never leave
what I
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
call the overall sounddesign.
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle
of
Post by Augustine Leudar
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like
the
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific
position)-
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an
overall ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds
in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for
headphones.
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic
too)
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) -
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some
automation)
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can
handle
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
ambisonics, right?
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and
make
Post by Augustine Leudar
Post by Jack Reynolds
all three in the same session…in logic.
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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Dave Malham
2018-03-28 09:51:13 UTC
Permalink
The first experience I had with this was in the mid-nineties Here at York.
Some students did a piece in this way, using Ambisonics. If I remember
rightly, that was John Vaughan and Peter Lennox, I'm sure they will correct
me if I'm wrong :-)
For any project like this, if you wish to use Ambisonics, I would recommend
that you at least start off using the so-called "in phase" decode. This
gives you considerably improved sweet spot size at the expense of image
sharpness. For third order work, you'll find that, all things being equal,
the decode will work reasonably well anywhere except on the actual surface
of the array.

Dave
Post by Augustine Leudar
Sorry Im a bit busy so didnt read all. I did quite a similar project with
two concentric rings of speakers one inside the other. My advice would be
to not use ambisonics but Vbap or some form of amplitude panning - sweet
spot is less of an issue. I do a lot of walk around installations and
occasionally for museums,
best,
Gus
Post by Jack Reynolds
As far as I know, higher order ambisonics over loudspeakers has a quite
confined sweet spot. Higher order spherical harmonics produce an in phase
and out of phase signal in opposite speaker pairs. So if you pan a signal
towards a particular speaker, the opposite speaker will produce a lower
level antiphase signal, which will work when you are positioned
equidistant
Post by Jack Reynolds
from both speakers, causing a certain amount of nulling of the air
pressure
Post by Jack Reynolds
at that spot, but positive particle velocity, like a figure 8 mic
pattern.
Post by Jack Reynolds
So as you move around the room, the sonic image will change because of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
opposite pairs of speakers.
It’s also very difficult to isolate a sound in a single speaker, unless
you are working at seventh order ambisonics, with a 64 channel signal.
So I am wondering why you are considering ambisonics over vbap?
I use the Blue Ripple Sound third order ambisonic plug-ins in Reaper and
have also been experimenting with the IEM seventh order plugins which
could
Post by Jack Reynolds
be worth experimenting with. Reaper and Nuendo are the only DAWs which
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
give you 64 channel busses for 7th order, and IEM have just launched a
customisable speaker array decoding plugin. You can also try MATHIAS
Kronlachers 7th order ambiX suite for binaural decoding at the same time.
They also free, so you could experiment for nothing!
PTHD has just updated to 16 channel busses but logic can only do 8, so
first order only, which won’t give you much positional accuracy.
Hope this helps!
Cheers
Jack
Sent from my iPhone
Post by Søren Bendixen
Hello
I need some advice!
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/ <
https://www.asoundeffect.com/museum-sound-design/>). My next project
could be the one using ambisonics!…
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have never really used ambisonics but have been reading a lot lately,
and demoing plug ins - up til now only in headphones converting stuff to
binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And in the next few days I´ll test some ambisonics over my speakers. I
did that a while back and it sounded very cool.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have a studio with 8 ch out, 8 speakers (and a sub) - but hope I can
get my hands on 8 more channels and 8 more speakers.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I have logic Pro x, ableton live 9 (upgrading soon..) and Reaper. I do
most of my work in Logic Pro X, and would like to stay in Logic - the
exhibition opens in less than three months…so digging deep into another
DAW
Post by Jack Reynolds
is difficult.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m a composer and I compose music and sounddesign.I tend to use
standard technical configurations in odd ways (parallel stereo, some
sourround configs), Mostly it is ways of composing and arranging every
sound as a part of a symphony. It do that in different ways - and I
started
Post by Jack Reynolds
out working this way because I was asked to do 3 compositions/sounddesign
playing in the same room - (please read the article from asoundeffect).
Post by Søren Bendixen
Exhibition rooms are also often odd designs - and so is speaker
placement.
Post by Søren Bendixen
But this time I have the possibility to work in 3 circles and this is
- Inner circle: Speak in headphones + two sounddesigns: one related to
the speak, the other layers from the sounddesign from the two other
circles. I want this sounddesign to be 3D/Binaural.
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Middle circle: 8 speakers hanging from a rig about 4 - 5 meters up
pointing down into the circle.(45 degrees i guess..). This sounddesign
will
Post by Jack Reynolds
consist of music, local sound related to object/themes in this part of
the
Post by Jack Reynolds
exhibition. This should be in ambisonics. some of this sounddesign will
appear in headphones as binaural sounds. I can be two different
audiofiles
Post by Jack Reynolds
(managed by Qlab).
Post by Søren Bendixen
- Outer circle: 8 speakers placed on the walls - the room is square but
we will try to create an illusion that it is circular by projecting
movies
Post by Jack Reynolds
on the walls. Here I want another sounddesign consisting of mainly season
related sound (spring, summer, winter - storm, rain, wind, and just the
sound of a cold cold morning..).
Post by Søren Bendixen
his sounddesign should be ambisonics too.
If possible I would like sounds from ex. horses (or people walking or
wind blowing) wander from the outer circle into the middle circle and
into
Post by Jack Reynolds
headphones. and back.
Post by Søren Bendixen
The sounddesign/music from the middle circle and the outer circle will
blend (and should blend) and when you put on headphones you will hear
layers of the middle and outer circle designs - so you never leave what I
call the overall sounddesign.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So how do I do that..?
First I need to know: Is it true that Ambisonics does not “aim for” a
sweet spot - Paul Virostek says it does (https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883 <https://www.
creativefieldrecording.com/2017/03/01/explorers-of-
ambisonics-introduction/#more-16883>) a lot says it doesn’t..?
Post by Søren Bendixen
It is very importing to find out about, because an exhibition crowd
walks around so a narrow sweet spot is no go.
Post by Søren Bendixen
And my main reason for using ambisonics is that is believe it is the
best format to create space/soundroom where you are ex. in the middle of
a
Post by Jack Reynolds
storm. or you walk around inside a composition/orchestra.I also like the
idea that ambisonics is not depending on a fixed speaker
configuration..right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
So I want to create big spaces BUT the same sounddesign needs both
overall sound and local sound (sounds that stays in a specific position)-
and wandering sounds - it seems to be possible too to blend an overall
ambisonic full circle of sound with local placed sounds in the same
design…?
Post by Jack Reynolds
Post by Søren Bendixen
And what software do I need?
I guess I need software that can deal with ambisonics files and make
ambisonics files out of mono, stereo, surround files
Post by Søren Bendixen
and software that can convert ambisonics sound into binaural sound for
headphones.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I´m testing
Noisemakers ambihead, and Ambipan (good stuff and working in logic too)
DearVR music (and tomorrow testing DearVR pro for ambisonics output) -
(sounds great and the panner is very good)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And Logics own binarual output. (seems ok for binaural but misses some
automation)
Post by Søren Bendixen
Wigware (seems ok but cannot work in logic)
I’m about to test
Waves ambisonics B360 + NX
Rondo360
Everthing will run in sync controlled by Qlab - I guess Qlab can handle
ambisonics, right?
Post by Søren Bendixen
I found this about Qlab and ambisonics but it involves Reaper
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556 <
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=161556>
Post by Søren Bendixen
I’m used to do the different layers of sound design in different
sessions and combining them afterwards but this time I will try and make
all three in the same session…in logic.
Post by Søren Bendixen
I also have sound particles but it is stand alone and I might use for
some odd stuff.
Post by Søren Bendixen
So - what do you recommend?
And what do see as problems/issues?
Buy or get this software and do this - and you´re good :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
And I know I’m addressing my questions to a forum of people how does
far
Post by Jack Reynolds
more weird stuff than this :-)
Post by Søren Bendixen
I hope I’ve made myself clear. If not: tell me.
Med venlig hilsen/Best regards
Søren Bendixen
Composer/Sound Designer/Producer
Winner of Monitor Industry Award 2016 for the exhibition “Gladiator”,
At
Post by Jack Reynolds
Moesgaard Museum
Post by Søren Bendixen
New album Music for exhibitions out 15 January 2017
Company: Søren Bendixen & Anette Krag
+45 60624394
www.soerenbendixen.com
Facebook
Soundcloud
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