[Sursound] Zoom H2n firmware update for spatial audio + surround podcast produciton

Discussion:

Brendan Baker

2016-05-18 15:46:37 UTC

Hello! Longtime lurker, firstime poster here.

Apparently Zoom just updated the firmware for their H2N recorder to support
some form of spatial audio for Google's JUMP VR platform:

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2016/05/18/zoom-h2n-update-lets-you-record-immersive-audio-for-virtual-reality/#more-71273

According to their manual, it looks like this update now enables the H2N to
spit out a 4-channel WAV file somewhat resembling b-format, minus the
vertical channel.

https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/H2n_Ver2_OPmanual_E.pdf

Am I reading this correctly? I'm curious to hear what people on this list
think about it. (My assumption was/is that the orientation of the H2N's mic
capsules wouldn't create a true ambisonic image.)

Sadly, I lost my little H2N while traveling, otherwise I'd test this right
quick and report back...

As a new poster, I'd also be curious to connect with any other people out
there exploring and discussing the creative/editorial (rather than
technical) side of using surround/ambisonic/binaural material in radio
documentary, audio fiction, and podcasting.

A little about myself: I'm a podcast producer and sound designer interested
in exploring ambisonic for radio/podcast production. (I make a show called Love
+ Radio <http://loveandradio.org/>, which has a reputation for immersive
sound design and pushing the limits of what podcasting can do as a creative
medium.)

Cheers,
- Brendan

--
Brendan P. Baker
brendanpatrickbaker.com
Twitter: @brendanpbaker <https://twitter.com/BrendanPBaker>

<***@drivebyhighfive.net>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160518/b0ee8987/attachment.html>

Courville, Daniel

2016-05-18 16:40:11 UTC

Permalink

this update now enables the H2N to spit out a 4-channel WAV file somewhat resembling b-format, minus the vertical channel.

It is B-Format, ambiX: ACN channel sequence (WYZX), SN3D normalization.

My assumption was/is that the orientation of the H2N's mic capsules wouldn't create a true ambisonic image.

Augustine Leudar

2016-05-18 21:06:11 UTC

Permalink

I guess it would be able to position sounds on the horizontal plane, the
gap between the capsules means high frequencies with wavelengths shorter
than that gap might be a bit off . I do a fair bit of sound design - my
opinion is that for stereo theres not much point in trying to create
"immersive 3d sound" - Id say a minimum of quadrophonic would be necesary.
Of course broacasting surround sound is a great option. Theres loads more
that you can do than just ambisonics though .

this update now enables the H2N to spit out a 4-channel WAV file somewhat

resembling b-format, minus the vertical channel.
It is B-Format, ambiX: ACN channel sequence (WYZX), SN3D normalization.

My assumption was/is that the orientation of the H2N's mic capsules

wouldn't create a true ambisonic image.
Why?
Here's a small recording I did yesterday after updating the Zoom H2n. It's
a street corner in Montreal, just beside UQAM.
http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/audio/mtl-uqam-acn-sn3d.flac
FuMa version: http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/audio/mtl-uqam-fuma.flac
- Daniel
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.

Eric Benjamin

2016-05-18 21:24:26 UTC

Permalink

The principle problem with using the ZoomH2n for Ambisonics recording is that the capsules are arranged in such a way that left obstructs right and right obstructs left. This can be seen in the photos on Daniel's web page atLoading Image...

The result of the obstruction is that the polar patterns are severe!y compromised. They can't be modeled as a simple sum of zero and first order components which means that the recovered B-format will have significant errors. Also , the directions of the polar patterns vary with frequency.
This doesnt mean that it shouldn't be used, just that it could be better. Any one who is willing to modify could try exchanging the positions of the capsules between left and right. Or changing them to a square configuration.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Augustine Leudar<***@gmail.com> wrote: I guess it would be able to position sounds on the horizontal plane, the
gap between the capsules means high frequencies with wavelengths shorter
than that gap might be a bit off . I do a fair bit of sound design - my
opinion is that for stereo theres not much point in trying to create
"immersive 3d sound" - Id say a minimum of quadrophonic would be necesary.
Of course broacasting surround sound is a great option. Theres loads more
that you can do than just ambisonics though .

this update now enables the H2N to spit out a 4-channel WAV file somewhat

resembling b-format, minus the vertical channel.
It is B-Format, ambiX: ACN channel sequence (WYZX), SN3D normalization.

My assumption was/is that the orientation of the H2N's mic capsules

John Leonard

2016-06-13 10:12:53 UTC

Permalink

Is there a simple tool for decoding the H2n spatial material to horizontal surround without all the YouTube VR stuff?

Thanks

John

Please note new email address & direct line phone number
email: ***@johnleonard.uk
phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942

Post by Courville, Daniel

this update now enables the H2N to spit out a 4-channel WAV file somewhat resembling b-format, minus the vertical channel.

It is B-Format, ambiX: ACN channel sequence (WYZX), SN3D normalization.

My assumption was/is that the orientation of the H2N's mic capsules wouldn't create a true ambisonic image.

Why?
Here's a small recording I did yesterday after updating the Zoom H2n. It's a street corner in Montreal, just beside UQAM.
http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/audio/mtl-uqam-acn-sn3d.flac
FuMa version: http://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/audio/mtl-uqam-fuma.flac
- Daniel
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
http://www.netintelligence.com/email

umashankar manthravadi

2016-05-19 01:00:40 UTC

Permalink

A few years ago, I designed a tetrahedral array using 14 mm capsules that is a drop in replacement for the zoom H2N array, With calibration, we sell it as Brahma-in-Zoom, but the shapeways printed part is available for anyone wanting to try.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Eric Benjamin<mailto:***@pacbell.net>
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 2:55 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:***@music.vt.edu>; Augustine Leudar<mailto:***@gmail.com>; Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Zoom H2n firmware update for spatial audio + surround podcast produciton

The principle problem with using the ZoomH2n for Ambisonics recording is that the capsules are arranged in such a way that left obstructs right and right obstructs left. This can be seen in the photos on Daniel's web page athttp://www.radio.uqam.ca/ambisonic/images/h2_01.jpg
The result of the obstruction is that the polar patterns are severe!y compromised. They can't be modeled as a simple sum of zero and first order components which means that the recovered B-format will have significant errors. Also , the directions of the polar patterns vary with frequency.
This doesnt mean that it shouldn't be used, just that it could be better. Any one who is willing to modify could try exchanging the positions of the capsules between left and right. Or changing them to a square configuration.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Augustine Leudar<***@gmail.com> wrote: I guess it would be able to position sounds on the horizontal plane, the
gap between the capsules means high frequencies with wavelengths shorter
than that gap might be a bit off . I do a fair bit of sound design - my
opinion is that for stereo theres not much point in trying to create
"immersive 3d sound" - Id say a minimum of quadrophonic would be necesary.
Of course broacasting surround sound is a great option. Theres loads more
that you can do than just ambisonics though .

this update now enables the H2N to spit out a 4-channel WAV file somewhat

resembling b-format, minus the vertical channel.
It is B-Format, ambiX: ACN channel sequence (WYZX), SN3D normalization.

My assumption was/is that the orientation of the H2N's mic capsules

--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160518/eede9d3e/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
***@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160518/63283f5b/attachment-0001.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
***@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20160519/9c3e7884/attachment.html>

Courville, Daniel

2016-06-13 17:12:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by John Leonard
Is there a simple tool for decoding the H2n spatial material to horizontal surround without all the YouTube VR stuff?

John Leonard

2016-06-14 17:00:13 UTC

Permalink

Got it,

Thanks,

John

Please note new email address & direct line phone number
email: ***@johnleonard.uk
phone +44 (0)20 3286 5942

Post by Courville, Daniel

Post by John Leonard
Is there a simple tool for decoding the H2n spatial material to horizontal surround without all the YouTube VR stuff?

It's B-Format.
At the output of the H2n in "spatial audio" mode, it's B-Format, but ambiX flavor. Put the Matthias Kronlachner B-Format converter before your usual decoder (Surround Zone? Harpex-B?) and you're good to go.
http://www.matthiaskronlachner.com/?p=2015
- Daniel
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
______________________________________________
This email has been scanned by Netintelligence
http://www.netintelligence.com/email