Discussion:
Zoom limiters
(too old to reply)
Steven Boardman
2018-09-15 20:16:44 UTC
Permalink
Yes it does in the h2, h4, h4n, and the h6, but not the f4, f8, or f8n.
They are hybrid...
I have a h4n, h2n, and f8, but have used them all.
It really does work like i said, and is effective at higher bit rates.
There's quite a few tests online, and quite a few misplaced negatively from
sound devices owners, that really didn't do their research.
Obviously i would prefer a bank of 8 accurately linked analig limiters, but
that really does bump up the price and size.

(started a new thread so we don't go to off piste)

Best

Steve
Their limiter doesn't work like that Ralf.
It does in the H2, H4 and H4n. Purely digital and behind the A/D
converter. They call it a digital 'effect'.
Zoom have a rich history with such stunts. Shortly after the
introduction of the H4n, some particularly loud metal musicians
complained that even in the lowest level setting it would still be
distorting.
A new firmware release brought the additional mic level settings 0.1 to
0.9 with a downward extension of the control range by 24 dB. A quick
check on the test bench revealed that they just reduced the level in the
digital domain. The recorded signal was still flat-topping, with the
level meters at -24 dB, while the input select buttons were flashing
furiously to indicate the overload at the AD converter.
Having an all in one small unit, however non professional is great.
I'll certainly agree with that, although cum grano salis, as usual with
Zoom. Having said this, I have a few hundred audio recordings I would
never have made if it weren't for the ease and simplicity of the Zooms.
Ralf
--
Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web : http://www.fotoralf.de
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180915/6a04597f/attachment.html>
Fons Adriaensen
2018-09-16 08:02:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Boardman
I have a h4n, h2n, and f8, but have used them all.
It really does work like i said, and is effective at higher bit rates.
There's quite a few tests online, and quite a few misplaced negatively from
sound devices owners, that really didn't do their research.
Obviously i would prefer a bank of 8 accurately linked analig limiters, but
that really does bump up the price and size.
Still this looks like a 'feature' that is only there for commercial
reasons.

Simple fact is that when you record a mic signal with 24 bits, you
don't need a limiter or even a gain control. Just a fixed gain
setting that ensures that self noise is 10 dB or so above quantisation
noise. Even then you need an SPL well above the mic's limit to clip
the digital signal. You may end up with a low level in the recording,
but recording the same with more gain will not improve the result
in any way since it is limited by the performance of the analog
parts.

For what it's worth, I'd never by any supposedly 'pro' or even
'semi-pro' gear if there are no full and unambiguous specs available.

Ciao,
--
FA
Steven Boardman
2018-09-16 08:50:35 UTC
Permalink
This is fine if you know what the general level is going to be. But if you
are running and gunning actors, that go from a very quiet whisper at
distance to a full on scream at close range, then the security of
limiters, is useful. Especially combined with random environments that
cause all sorts of thumps, pops and clicks.
I would rather files flattened like a pancake, than the sound of a preamp
getting over hot, or even worse an adc overloading.

There are also times when the reduction of bit depth caused by low level
recording has detrimental effects in post. Files get transfered and
converted through various processes, fx and equipment, that ultimately
messes with gain structure. And of course each one is operated by a human
you have no control of. Which means by the time they arrive on your
timeline, those so called non limited 24bit files sound like a sand paper
rub..

Best

Steve
Post by Fons Adriaensen
Post by Steven Boardman
I have a h4n, h2n, and f8, but have used them all.
It really does work like i said, and is effective at higher bit rates.
There's quite a few tests online, and quite a few misplaced negatively
from
Post by Steven Boardman
sound devices owners, that really didn't do their research.
Obviously i would prefer a bank of 8 accurately linked analig limiters,
but
Post by Steven Boardman
that really does bump up the price and size.
Still this looks like a 'feature' that is only there for commercial
reasons.
Simple fact is that when you record a mic signal with 24 bits, you
don't need a limiter or even a gain control. Just a fixed gain
setting that ensures that self noise is 10 dB or so above quantisation
noise. Even then you need an SPL well above the mic's limit to clip
the digital signal. You may end up with a low level in the recording,
but recording the same with more gain will not improve the result
in any way since it is limited by the performance of the analog
parts.
For what it's worth, I'd never by any supposedly 'pro' or even
'semi-pro' gear if there are no full and unambiguous specs available.
Ciao,
--
FA
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20180916/a7595400/attachment.html>
Loading...