Discussion:
Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query
(too old to reply)
Simon Connor
2018-11-01 10:04:07 UTC
Permalink
Hi Sursounders

I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…

I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
(say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
experience.

Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective head
trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?

I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.

Any suggestions would be very welcome!

Thanks in advance
Simon
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Picinali, Lorenzo
2018-11-01 10:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Hello Simon,


I don't have any Reaper-friendly suggestion, but if you are happy to use other software you could use simple mobile phones for head tracking (you could also use some simple head trackers like MrHeadTracker from IEM - https://git.iem.at/DIY/MrHeadTracker), sending through the data via OSC to a computer where you can run various instances of the 3D Tune-In Toolkit (http://3d-tune-in.eu/toolkit-developers & <http://3d-tune-in.eu/toolkit-developers> https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/). We will soon release the 3D Tune-In Toolkit as a VST plugin, so it might be possible to use it with Reaper...I'll be happy to have a chat about it, if you wish.


Best regards

Lorenzo



--
Dr Lorenzo Picinali
Senior Lecturer in Audio Experience Design
Director of Undergraduate Studies
Dyson School of Design Engineering
Imperial College London
Dyson Building
Imperial College Road
South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London
T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158
E: ***@imperial.ac.uk

http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali

www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school>
________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Simon Connor <***@gmail.com>
Sent: 01 November 2018 10:04:07
To: ***@music.vt.edu
Subject: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query

Hi Sursounders

I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…

I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
(say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
experience.

Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective head
trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?

I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.

Any suggestions would be very welcome!

Thanks in advance
Simon
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Simon Connor
2018-11-01 10:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the swift reply Lorenzo! This is a great start.

I shall check these out, one key thing I should have mentioned is that the
audio feed needs to be synced to video (hence the Reaper functionality - as
this will simultaneously run the audio and video). So the audio will need
to be streamed to all users synchronously. I'm not sure if this has an
implication on the use of mobile phones or not?
Cheers
Simon

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 10:14, Picinali, Lorenzo <***@imperial.ac.uk>
wrote:

> Hello Simon,
>
>
> I don't have any Reaper-friendly suggestion, but if you are happy to use
> other software you could use simple mobile phones for head tracking (you
> could also use some simple head trackers like MrHeadTracker from IEM -
> https://git.iem.at/DIY/MrHeadTracker), sending through the data via OSC
> to a computer where you can run various instances of the 3D Tune-In Toolkit
> (http://3d-tune-in.eu/toolkit-developers & <
> http://3d-tune-in.eu/toolkit-developers>
> https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/). We will soon release
> the 3D Tune-In Toolkit as a VST plugin, so it might be possible to use it
> with Reaper...I'll be happy to have a chat about it, if you wish.
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Lorenzo Picinali
> Senior Lecturer in Audio Experience Design
> Director of Undergraduate Studies
> Dyson School of Design Engineering
> Imperial College London
> Dyson Building
> Imperial College Road
> South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London
> T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158
> E: ***@imperial.ac.uk
>
> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali
>
> www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<
> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Simon Connor <
> ***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 01 November 2018 10:04:07
> To: ***@music.vt.edu
> Subject: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query
>
> Hi Sursounders
>
> I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>
> I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> experience.
>
> Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective head
> trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>
> I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>
> Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>
> Thanks in advance
> Simon
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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Picinali, Lorenzo
2018-11-01 10:40:08 UTC
Permalink
Hello Simon,


I suggested using the mobile phones only as head trackers, so they'll just send out via OSC (wifi) the sensors data to the audio rendering application/computer, which will then generate the various audio feeds.

Another important question is whether the audio-feed pre-determined, or is it generated in real-time. If the first, then I think you could use the 3D Tune-In Toolkit app for the playback, controlled remotely (start-stop audio) by whatever you use for the video playback.


I'm happy to have a chat on how this could be done if you wish!

Best regards
Lorenzo



--
Dr Lorenzo Picinali
Senior Lecturer in Audio Experience Design
Director of Undergraduate Studies
Dyson School of Design Engineering
Imperial College London
Dyson Building
Imperial College Road
South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London
T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158
E: ***@imperial.ac.uk

http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali

www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school>
________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Simon Connor <***@gmail.com>
Sent: 01 November 2018 10:28:15
To: ***@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query

Thanks for the swift reply Lorenzo! This is a great start.

I shall check these out, one key thing I should have mentioned is that the
audio feed needs to be synced to video (hence the Reaper functionality - as
this will simultaneously run the audio and video). So the audio will need
to be streamed to all users synchronously. I'm not sure if this has an
implication on the use of mobile phones or not?
Cheers
Simon

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 10:14, Picinali, Lorenzo <***@imperial.ac.uk>
wrote:

> Hello Simon,
>
>
> I don't have any Reaper-friendly suggestion, but if you are happy to use
> other software you could use simple mobile phones for head tracking (you
> could also use some simple head trackers like MrHeadTracker from IEM -
> https://git.iem.at/DIY/MrHeadTracker), sending through the data via OSC
> to a computer where you can run various instances of the 3D Tune-In Toolkit
> (http://3d-tune-in.eu/toolkit-developers & <
> http://3d-tune-in.eu/toolkit-developers>
> https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/). We will soon release
> the 3D Tune-In Toolkit as a VST plugin, so it might be possible to use it
> with Reaper...I'll be happy to have a chat about it, if you wish.
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Lorenzo
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Lorenzo Picinali
> Senior Lecturer in Audio Experience Design
> Director of Undergraduate Studies
> Dyson School of Design Engineering
> Imperial College London
> Dyson Building
> Imperial College Road
> South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London
> T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158
> E: ***@imperial.ac.uk
>
> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali
>
> www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<<http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<>
> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Simon Connor <
> ***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 01 November 2018 10:04:07
> To: ***@music.vt.edu
> Subject: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query
>
> Hi Sursounders
>
> I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>
> I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> experience.
>
> Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective head
> trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>
> I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>
> Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>
> Thanks in advance
> Simon
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>
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Simon Connor
2018-11-01 10:44:58 UTC
Permalink
Ah yes I see
Yes the audio is pre-determined on a loop with the video, so I will give
this a try. I'll likely be back in touch soon via email with some queries!

Many thanks for your help

Simon


On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 10:40, Picinali, Lorenzo <***@imperial.ac.uk>
wrote:

> Hello Simon,
>
>
> I suggested using the mobile phones only as head trackers, so they'll just
> send out via OSC (wifi) the sensors data to the audio rendering
> application/computer, which will then generate the various audio feeds.
>
> Another important question is whether the audio-feed pre-determined, or is
> it generated in real-time. If the first, then I think you could use the 3D
> Tune-In Toolkit app for the playback, controlled remotely (start-stop
> audio) by whatever you use for the video playback.
>
>
> I'm happy to have a chat on how this could be done if you wish!
>
> Best regards
> Lorenzo
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Lorenzo Picinali
> Senior Lecturer in Audio Experience Design
> Director of Undergraduate Studies
> Dyson School of Design Engineering
> Imperial College London
> Dyson Building
> Imperial College Road
> South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London
> T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158
> E: ***@imperial.ac.uk
>
> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali
>
> www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<
> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Simon Connor <
> ***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 01 November 2018 10:28:15
> To: ***@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query
>
> Thanks for the swift reply Lorenzo! This is a great start.
>
> I shall check these out, one key thing I should have mentioned is that the
> audio feed needs to be synced to video (hence the Reaper functionality - as
> this will simultaneously run the audio and video). So the audio will need
> to be streamed to all users synchronously. I'm not sure if this has an
> implication on the use of mobile phones or not?
> Cheers
> Simon
>
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 10:14, Picinali, Lorenzo <***@imperial.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Simon,
> >
> >
> > I don't have any Reaper-friendly suggestion, but if you are happy to use
> > other software you could use simple mobile phones for head tracking (you
> > could also use some simple head trackers like MrHeadTracker from IEM -
> > https://git.iem.at/DIY/MrHeadTracker), sending through the data via OSC
> > to a computer where you can run various instances of the 3D Tune-In
> Toolkit
> > (http://3d-tune-in.eu/toolkit-developers & <
> > http://3d-tune-in.eu/toolkit-developers>
> > https://github.com/3DTune-In/3dti_AudioToolkit/). We will soon release
> > the 3D Tune-In Toolkit as a VST plugin, so it might be possible to use it
> > with Reaper...I'll be happy to have a chat about it, if you wish.
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Lorenzo
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr Lorenzo Picinali
> > Senior Lecturer in Audio Experience Design
> > Director of Undergraduate Studies
> > Dyson School of Design Engineering
> > Imperial College London
> > Dyson Building
> > Imperial College Road
> > South Kensington, SW7 2DB, London
> > T: 0044 (0)20 7594 8158
> > E: ***@imperial.ac.uk
> >
> > http://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/l.picinali
> >
> > www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<<
> http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school<>
> > http://www.imperial.ac.uk/design-engineering-school>
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Simon
> Connor <
> > ***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 01 November 2018 10:04:07
> > To: ***@music.vt.edu
> > Subject: [Sursound] Multi-user head tracked binaural ambisonics query
> >
> > Hi Sursounders
> >
> > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
> >
> > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> > experience.
> >
> > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
> head
> > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
> >
> > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Simon
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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Bo-Erik Sandholm
2018-11-01 10:32:33 UTC
Permalink
The project on https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI with headtracker HW + SW
might be of interest.

The Host application is running in a browser, and can play FOA or HOA files
from the local file system or from the local webserver server on the device.

I will upload a newer software version today or tomorrow.

Currently the software can play local files from the device OR files from
the local web server that publishes the application.

The headtracker is currently BLE connected but I will revive the software
for the USB version that has a lower HW cost.

Developement is aiming to change the Headtracker to use Web ble function
to read the local headtracker then playing streaming ambisonics with local
headtracking will be possible.

Best Regards
Bo-Erik


Den tors 1 nov. 2018 kl 11:06 skrev Simon Connor <***@gmail.com>:

> Hi Sursounders
>
> I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>
> I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> experience.
>
> Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective head
> trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>
> I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>
> Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>
> Thanks in advance
> Simon
> -------------- next part --------------
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> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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Simon Connor
2018-11-01 10:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Bo-Erik,

This also looks like this could be a great option, I shall give this a
look. Please keep me informed with the development of the Web BLE and local
headtracking function!

Cheers
Simon

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 10:33, Bo-Erik Sandholm <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> The project on https://github.com/bossesand/OHTI with headtracker HW + SW
> might be of interest.
>
> The Host application is running in a browser, and can play FOA or HOA files
> from the local file system or from the local webserver server on the
> device.
>
> I will upload a newer software version today or tomorrow.
>
> Currently the software can play local files from the device OR files from
> the local web server that publishes the application.
>
> The headtracker is currently BLE connected but I will revive the software
> for the USB version that has a lower HW cost.
>
> Developement is aiming to change the Headtracker to use Web ble function
> to read the local headtracker then playing streaming ambisonics with local
> headtracking will be possible.
>
> Best Regards
> Bo-Erik
>
>
> Den tors 1 nov. 2018 kl 11:06 skrev Simon Connor <***@gmail.com>:
>
> > Hi Sursounders
> >
> > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
> >
> > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> > experience.
> >
> > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
> head
> > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
> >
> > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Simon
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20181101/172db4c7/attachment.html
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
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Jörn Nettingsmeier
2018-11-01 19:10:49 UTC
Permalink
On 11/1/18 11:04 AM, Simon Connor wrote:
> Hi Sursounders
>
> I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>
> I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> experience.
>
> Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective head
> trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>
> I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>
> Any suggestions would be very welcome!

My goal for 2019 is to work on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ solution for this.
Deploy one Pi per user with a USB headtracker and a good sound output
stage (such as HifiBerry), then just multicast a suitable HOA stream
(using, for example, Fons' zita-njbridge). I'm considering MrHeadTracker
from Graz, but to be honest I haven't tried building/porting rendering
software yet.
Will be glad to compare notes, but won't start working on it before
January...


--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
Tel. +49 177 7937487

Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
Bo-Erik Sandholm
2018-11-01 19:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Our OHTI should work on a RPi 3, I think very little additional work is
needed on our project to get/verify streaming to work.

Hope you can work with us, we want our project to be fully open.

Bo-Erik

On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 20:11 Jörn Nettingsmeier, <***@stackingdwarves.net>
wrote:

> On 11/1/18 11:04 AM, Simon Connor wrote:
> > Hi Sursounders
> >
> > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
> >
> > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> > experience.
> >
> > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
> head
> > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
> >
> > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>
> My goal for 2019 is to work on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ solution for this.
> Deploy one Pi per user with a USB headtracker and a good sound output
> stage (such as HifiBerry), then just multicast a suitable HOA stream
> (using, for example, Fons' zita-njbridge). I'm considering MrHeadTracker
> from Graz, but to be honest I haven't tried building/porting rendering
> software yet.
> Will be glad to compare notes, but won't start working on it before
> January...
>
>
> --
> Jörn Nettingsmeier
> Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
> Tel. +49 177 7937487
>
> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
> http://stackingdwarves.net
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
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Bo-Erik Sandholm
2018-11-01 23:16:17 UTC
Permalink
https://rawgit.com/GoogleChrome/omnitone/exp-opus-multichannel/examples/hoa-player.html
you can use this experimental player to test if local HOA AmbiX files can
be played on a RPi3 !
If it works, the OHTI headtracker should also work.

Bo-Erik

Den tors 1 nov. 2018 kl 20:57 skrev Bo-Erik Sandholm <***@gmail.com>:

> Our OHTI should work on a RPi 3, I think very little additional work is
> needed on our project to get/verify streaming to work.
>
> Hope you can work with us, we want our project to be fully open.
>
> Bo-Erik
>
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 20:11 Jörn Nettingsmeier, <***@stackingdwarves.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/1/18 11:04 AM, Simon Connor wrote:
>> > Hi Sursounders
>> >
>> > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>> >
>> > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
>> > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
>> > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
>> > experience.
>> >
>> > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
>> head
>> > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>> >
>> > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
>> > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
>> > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested
>> headtracking
>> > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>> >
>> > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>>
>> My goal for 2019 is to work on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ solution for this.
>> Deploy one Pi per user with a USB headtracker and a good sound output
>> stage (such as HifiBerry), then just multicast a suitable HOA stream
>> (using, for example, Fons' zita-njbridge). I'm considering MrHeadTracker
>> from Graz, but to be honest I haven't tried building/porting rendering
>> software yet.
>> Will be glad to compare notes, but won't start working on it before
>> January...
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier
>> Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
>> Tel. +49 177 7937487
>>
>> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
>> http://stackingdwarves.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sursound mailing list
>> ***@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
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Stefan Schreiber
2018-11-02 02:33:03 UTC
Permalink
Citando Bo-Erik Sandholm <***@gmail.com>:

> https://rawgit.com/GoogleChrome/omnitone/exp-opus-multichannel/examples/hoa-player.html
>
> you can use this experimental player to test if local HOA AmbiX files can
>
> be played on a RPi3 !
>
> If it works, the OHTI headtracker should also work.

Agreed, but this shows that it is time to publish the 2nd edition of
OHTI anyway...

(Playback of local hoa files, and of hoa files via the Internet.)

Just a note: You use AmbiX in the sense of “AmbiX convention”. (ACN
channel order,

SN3D normalisation.)
The AmbiX file format can’t carry some opus compressed audio, “as
everybody knows”.

😉

Best regards

Stefan

> Bo-Erik
>
>
>
> Den tors 1 nov. 2018 kl 20:57 skrev Bo-Erik Sandholm <***@gmail.com>:
>
>> Our OHTI should work on a RPi 3, I think very little additional work is
>>
>> needed on our project to get/verify streaming to work.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope you can work with us, we want our project to be fully open.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bo-Erik
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 20:11 Jörn Nettingsmeier, <***@stackingdwarves.net>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/1/18 11:04 AM, Simon Connor wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Sursounders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
>>>
>>> gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
>>>
>>> (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
>>>
>>> experience.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
>>>
>>> head
>>>
>>> trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
>>>
>>> impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
>>>
>>> impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested
>>>
>>> headtracking
>>>
>>> device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My goal for 2019 is to work on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ solution for this.
>>>
>>> Deploy one Pi per user with a USB headtracker and a good sound output
>>>
>>> stage (such as HifiBerry), then just multicast a suitable HOA stream
>>>
>>> (using, for example, Fons' zita-njbridge). I'm considering MrHeadTracker
>>>
>>> from Graz, but to be honest I haven't tried building/porting rendering
>>>
>>> software yet.
>>>
>>> Will be glad to compare notes, but won't start working on it before
>>>
>>> January...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Jörn Nettingsmeier
>>>
>>> Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
>>>
>>> Tel. +49 177 7937487
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
>>>
>>> http://stackingdwarves.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> Sursound mailing list
>>>
>>> ***@music.vt.edu
>>>
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>>>
>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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Simon Connor
2018-11-02 14:23:49 UTC
Permalink
This sounds good thanks Jörn

Just sussing out some options at this stage, so will check this out, but
yes please keep me informed if you get chance to test.

Cheers
Simon
Simon



On Thu, 1 Nov 2018 at 19:11, Jörn Nettingsmeier <
***@stackingdwarves.net> wrote:

> On 11/1/18 11:04 AM, Simon Connor wrote:
> > Hi Sursounders
> >
> > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
> >
> > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> > experience.
> >
> > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
> head
> > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
> >
> > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>
> My goal for 2019 is to work on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ solution for this.
> Deploy one Pi per user with a USB headtracker and a good sound output
> stage (such as HifiBerry), then just multicast a suitable HOA stream
> (using, for example, Fons' zita-njbridge). I'm considering MrHeadTracker
> from Graz, but to be honest I haven't tried building/porting rendering
> software yet.
> Will be glad to compare notes, but won't start working on it before
> January...
>
>
> --
> Jörn Nettingsmeier
> Tuinbouwstraat 180, 1097 ZB Amsterdam, Nederland
> Tel. +49 177 7937487
>
> Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio), Tonmeister VDT
> http://stackingdwarves.net
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
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Giso Grimm
2018-11-02 14:39:18 UTC
Permalink
On 01.11.18 11:04, Simon Connor wrote:
> Hi Sursounders
>
> I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>
> I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> experience.
>
> Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective head
> trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>
> I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>
> Any suggestions would be very welcome!


not necessarily Reaper-friendly, but I used five MPU6050 with a ESP8266
controller, to control the binaural rendering of five headphone pairs on
a central PC (no network-distributed audio). The motion tracking
hardware I used has probably more drift problems that the Graz solution,
which I compensated for in the rendering software (TASCAR,
https://github.com/gisogrimm/tascar).

The setup worked well on stage for hours (100 Hz motion tracking frame
rate, 4.5ms audio delay). It provided a minimal externalization benefit
compared to static in-ear monitoring, but was definitely useful in some
situations when the sources where acoustically similar, and spatial
separation was the only cue.


Best,

Giso

>
> Thanks in advance
> Simon
> -------------- next part --------------
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> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
Drew Kirkland
2018-11-03 11:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Contact ***@gmail.com

On Fri, 2 Nov 2018, 14:39 Giso Grimm, <***@vegri.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 01.11.18 11:04, Simon Connor wrote:
> > Hi Sursounders
> >
> > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
> >
> > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> > experience.
> >
> > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
> head
> > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
> >
> > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested headtracking
> > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
> >
> > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>
>
> not necessarily Reaper-friendly, but I used five MPU6050 with a ESP8266
> controller, to control the binaural rendering of five headphone pairs on
> a central PC (no network-distributed audio). The motion tracking
> hardware I used has probably more drift problems that the Graz solution,
> which I compensated for in the rendering software (TASCAR,
> https://github.com/gisogrimm/tascar).
>
> The setup worked well on stage for hours (100 Hz motion tracking frame
> rate, 4.5ms audio delay). It provided a minimal externalization benefit
> compared to static in-ear monitoring, but was definitely useful in some
> situations when the sources where acoustically similar, and spatial
> separation was the only cue.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Giso
>
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Simon
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20181101/172db4c7/attachment.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
--





Drew Kirkland
1 campbleton cottage
Hunterston Estate
KA23 9QF
07876 238 608
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Simon Connor
2018-11-05 20:04:15 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Drew

On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 11:16, Drew Kirkland <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Contact ***@gmail.com
>
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2018, 14:39 Giso Grimm, <***@vegri.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 01.11.18 11:04, Simon Connor wrote:
> > > Hi Sursounders
> > >
> > > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
> > >
> > > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked binaural HOA in a
> > > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
> > > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
> > > experience.
> > >
> > > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
> > head
> > > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
> > >
> > > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
> > > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
> > > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested
> headtracking
> > > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
> > >
> > > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
> >
> >
> > not necessarily Reaper-friendly, but I used five MPU6050 with a ESP8266
> > controller, to control the binaural rendering of five headphone pairs on
> > a central PC (no network-distributed audio). The motion tracking
> > hardware I used has probably more drift problems that the Graz solution,
> > which I compensated for in the rendering software (TASCAR,
> > https://github.com/gisogrimm/tascar).
> >
> > The setup worked well on stage for hours (100 Hz motion tracking frame
> > rate, 4.5ms audio delay). It provided a minimal externalization benefit
> > compared to static in-ear monitoring, but was definitely useful in some
> > situations when the sources where acoustically similar, and spatial
> > separation was the only cue.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Giso
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > Simon
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <
> >
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20181101/172db4c7/attachment.html
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> --
>
>
>
>
>
> Drew Kirkland
> 1 campbleton cottage
> Hunterston Estate
> KA23 9QF
> 07876 238 608
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
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David Pickett
2018-11-05 20:36:10 UTC
Permalink
Is all the detrius below really necessary?

I mean, please could members be so kind as to
trim the quote material to a minimum, in the interests of others.

Rant mode off!

:)

David

At 21:04 05-11-18, Simon Connor wrote:
>
>Thanks Drew
>
>On Sat, 3 Nov 2018 at 11:16, Drew Kirkland <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Contact ***@gmail.com
>
>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2018, 14:39 Giso Grimm, <***@vegri.net> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >
>> > On 01.11.18 11:04, Simon Connor wrote:
>> > > Hi Sursounders
>> > >
>> > > I'm wondering if I could pick some brains if possible…
>> > >
>>> > > I’m interested in the potential of using head tracked
>binaural HOA in a
>> > > gallery setting, but that would support multiple users at the same time
>> > > (say up to 6 people) so that each could have their own respondent audio
>> > > experience.
>> > >
>> > > Could anyone recommend any Reaper friendly software and cost effective
>> > head
>> > > trackers that would allow for multi-user head tracking?
>> > >
>> > > I know that Waves NX offers this but only for FOA and I've been less
>> > > impressed by the sound of the binaural decoding as yet. I've been very
>> > > impressed by Audio Ease’s 360 pan suite with their suggested
>> headtracking
>> > > device but currently this doesn’t offer multi-user functionality.
>> > >
>> > > Any suggestions would be very welcome!
>> >
>> >
>> > not necessarily Reaper-friendly, but I used five MPU6050 with a ESP8266
>> > controller, to control the binaural rendering of five headphone pairs on
>> > a central PC (no network-distributed audio). The motion tracking
>> > hardware I used has probably more drift problems that the Graz solution,
>> > which I compensated for in the rendering software (TASCAR,
>> > https://github.com/gisogrimm/tascar).
>> >
>> > The setup worked well on stage for hours (100 Hz motion tracking frame
>> > rate, 4.5ms audio delay). It provided a minimal externalization benefit
>> > compared to static in-ear monitoring, but was definitely useful in some
>> > situations when the sources where acoustically similar, and spatial
>> > separation was the only cue.
>> >
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Giso
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Thanks in advance
>> > > Simon
>> > > -------------- next part --------------
>> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> > > URL: <
>> >
>>
>https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/2018110
>1/172db4c7/attachment.html
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Sursound mailing list
>> > > ***@music.vt.edu
>> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>> here,
>> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Sursound mailing list
>> > ***@music.vt.edu
>> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>> >
>> --
>
>
>
>
>
>> Drew Kirkland
>> 1 campbleton cottage
>> Hunterston Estate
>> KA23 9QF
>> 07876 238 608
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Sursound mailing list
>> ***@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
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>_______________________________________________
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>***@music.vt.edu
>https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
Simon Connor
2018-11-05 21:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Apologies, gmail had it hidden so I didn't realise it was all included
:)


On Mon, 5 Nov 2018 at 20:36, David Pickett <***@fugato.com> wrote:

> Is all the detrius below really necessary?
>
> I mean, please could members be so kind as to
> trim the quote material to a minimum, in the interests of others.
>
> Rant mode off!
>
> :)
>
> David
>
>
>
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Martin Leese
2018-11-06 19:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Simon Connor wrote:
...
> *First, is the video individual or projected? Is this HMD/GoogleCardboard
> type situation? If the first, what are the audio/video sync latency
> tolerances for the piece? *
>
> The video will be a single large scale projection rather than an individual
> VR / Google cardboard headsets. The audio will be in sync with image. Ive
> not had chance to test yet so not definite on tolerable latency but at a
> guess up to a couple of miliseconds if possible.
>
> *Second, is the sound scene a "shared" experience, in that do the actions
> of one person affect the sound heard by another? Is the scene dynamically
> generated/rendered in real-time or is this basic off-line rendered audio
> HOA playback? Single point of view in the sound scene, or does each
> listener have their own view, and it is fixed or moving with the user's
> position? *
>
> The sound scene is played back by off line rendered audio. A fixed/linear
> 3OA audio stream, which I would then like to be decoded binaurally to each
> users HP, for now this will be fixed rather than constantly moving.
>
> This audio stream would be the same for each each user - a binaural mix but
> modified depending on their own unique head movements . So the data flow
> would be; audio and video played in sync, audio sent potentially wirelessly
> to approx 6 pairs of headphones with headtracker, each user's headtracker
> sending data back to the individual binaural decoder, and then each user
> receiving their own modified stream from this.

Maybe I am being silly, but would a much
simpler solution not be to use speakers?
The video is canned and projected. The
soundfield is fixed relative to the video. Why
all these ear muffs?

Regards,
Martin
--
Martin J Leese
E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
Simon Connor
2018-11-09 16:23:16 UTC
Permalink
Thanks all for you responses - Lorenzo I render out the 30A virtual speaker
stems and be in touch about the 3DTi App. Brian your AES paper has been
very helpful and given me plenty of insight into the possible issues.

With regard to the use of headphones there's a number of factors

- The soundfield will be modified by users head movements with realtime
binaural processing rather than remaining entirely fixed
- The work is intended for gallery installation and from prior experience
the spaces are usually less than ideal in terms of acoustics and the usual
level of general ambient noise. As its a quiet piece (using a lot of rural
field recordings) hp would allow for a mobile sweet spot and go some way to
provide a more intricate sound scene with less background distractions
- This is a work in progress but the plan is to eventually use location
tracking with the headsets as users move from one space to another within
the gallery, moving between different sound scenes and potentially
triggering virtual sounds in specific areas,

Thanks all for the suggestions - will let you know how I progress

Cheers
Simon


> Maybe I am being silly, but would a much
> simpler solution not be to use speakers?
> The video is canned and projected. The
> soundfield is fixed relative to the video. Why
> all these ear muffs?
>
> Regards,
> Martin
> --
> Martin J Leese
> E-mail: martin.leese stanfordalumni.org
> Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
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