Discussion:
***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
(too old to reply)
Oddity Medium
2018-04-09 19:22:48 UTC
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Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?

I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
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Augustine Leudar
2018-04-09 20:35:29 UTC
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They're actually pretty good - not so much bass . I remember running an
installation in a Botanic Garden and a visiting professor, dear man but
terrible microphone snob said to me "The sound quality is amazing - which
microphone did you use ?" - the look of horror that passed ove rhis face
when I told him it was a Zoom H2n was priceless :)

On 9 April 2018 at 20:22, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?
>
> I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
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>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Augustine Leudar
2018-04-09 20:36:23 UTC
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Raw Message
PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini jack
in and terrible quality.....

On 9 April 2018 at 21:35, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

> They're actually pretty good - not so much bass . I remember running an
> installation in a Botanic Garden and a visiting professor, dear man but
> terrible microphone snob said to me "The sound quality is amazing - which
> microphone did you use ?" - the look of horror that passed ove rhis face
> when I told him it was a Zoom H2n was priceless :)
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 20:22, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?
>>
>> I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
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>> _______________________________________________
>> Sursound mailing list
>> ***@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> www.magikdoor.net
>
>


--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Augustine Leudar
2018-04-09 20:41:42 UTC
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This is probably worth a look :

https://endabates.wordpress.com/2017/06/

On 9 April 2018 at 21:36, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

> PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini
> jack in and terrible quality.....
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 21:35, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> They're actually pretty good - not so much bass . I remember running an
>> installation in a Botanic Garden and a visiting professor, dear man but
>> terrible microphone snob said to me "The sound quality is amazing - which
>> microphone did you use ?" - the look of horror that passed ove rhis face
>> when I told him it was a Zoom H2n was priceless :)
>>
>> On 9 April 2018 at 20:22, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?
>>>
>>> I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme
>>> nts/20180409/81493532/attachment.html>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sursound mailing list
>>> ***@music.vt.edu
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Augustine Leudar
>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
>> Company Number : NI635217
>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
>> Belfast BT88LL
>> www.magikdoor.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> www.magikdoor.net
>
>


--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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David Pickett
2018-04-09 20:43:24 UTC
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At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini jack
>in and terrible quality.....

Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level
and impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but
having taken care of that, why should the quality be worse than using
the microphione mounted on the side?

David
Augustine Leudar
2018-04-09 20:49:08 UTC
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Raw Message
My guess would be the AD converters are not great - DA converters are
generally flat as a pankake these days but AD converters are not always on
cheaper stuff. I tried it with various different microphones and was never
happy - several other sI know found the same. Of course they dont have
phantom power either ...

On 9 April 2018 at 21:43, David Pickett <***@fugato.com> wrote:

> At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:
> >PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini
> jack
> >in and terrible quality.....
>
> Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level and
> impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but having taken
> care of that, why should the quality be worse than using the microphione
> mounted on the side?
>
> David
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Augustine Leudar
2018-04-09 20:57:49 UTC
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Raw Message
I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini jack
in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise ratio
was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
mics on the side its the one with them in the top :

https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-h2n-handy-recorder

The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for external
mics.
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Oddity Medium
2018-04-09 21:06:55 UTC
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Raw Message
why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
(with the new firmware) ?
because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com
> wrote:

> I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini jack
> in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise ratio
> was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
> mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
>
> https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/
> zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
>
> The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for external
> mics.
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>
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Augustine Leudar
2018-04-09 21:28:47 UTC
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No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
zoom H2N which might interest you :

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1569945514/brahma-affordable-ambisonics-microphone

Im not sure if he's still doing it....

On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
> (with the new firmware) ?
> because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> ***@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
> jack
> > in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise ratio
> > was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
> > mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
> >
> > https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/
> > zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
> >
> > The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
> external
> > mics.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Oddity Medium
2018-04-09 22:16:21 UTC
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Raw Message
As I grok it, the Brahmas are significantly more expensive (3-4 times), and
only output A-format. The Brahmas do perform FOA with-height. The Zoom H2N
outputs WAV which is then massaged into pantophonic B-Format... correct?

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com
> wrote:

> No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
> zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
> the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
> for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
> zoom H2N which might interest you :
>
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1569945514/brahma-
> affordable-ambisonics-microphone
>
> Im not sure if he's still doing it....
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
> > (with the new firmware) ?
> > because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
> > ***@gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
> > jack
> > > in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise
> ratio
> > > was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
> > > mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
> > >
> > > https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-
> recording/field-recording/
> > > zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
> > >
> > > The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
> > external
> > > mics.
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > > attachments/20180409/25ff40cf/attachment.html>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > attachments/20180409/e5ad8706/attachment.html>
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> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> www.magikdoor.net
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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Gerard Lardner
2018-04-09 23:31:07 UTC
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Raw Message
The Zoom H2n outputs A-format as two stereo files (wav or mp3)

Uumshankar is still producing the Brahma, and some interesting
developments from it; but no longer in association with Embrace Cinema
Gear (the original manufacturer for the Brahma Kickstart project).
Brahma Microphones is now at http://brahmamic.com/


On 09/04/2018 23:16, Oddity Medium wrote:
> As I grok it, the Brahmas are significantly more expensive (3-4 times), and
> only output A-format. The Brahmas do perform FOA with-height. The Zoom H2N
> outputs WAV which is then massaged into pantophonic B-Format... correct?
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
>> zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
>> the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
>> for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
>> zoom H2N which might interest you :
>>
>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1569945514/brahma-
>> affordable-ambisonics-microphone
>>
>> Im not sure if he's still doing it....
>>
>> On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
>>> (with the new firmware) ?
>>> because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>>> ***@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
>>> jack
>>>> in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise
>> ratio
>>>> was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
>>>> mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
>>>>
>>>> https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-
>> recording/field-recording/
>>>> zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
>>>>
>>>> The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
>>> external
>>>> mics.
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
>>>> attachments/20180409/25ff40cf/attachment.html>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sursound mailing list
>>>> ***@music.vt.edu
>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>> here,
>>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
>>> attachments/20180409/e5ad8706/attachment.html>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sursound mailing list
>>> ***@music.vt.edu
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Augustine Leudar
>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
>> Company Number : NI635217
>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
>> Belfast BT88LL
>> www.magikdoor.net
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ***@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>>
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umashankar manthravadi
2018-04-10 01:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks Gerard



I thought I would wait for the discussion to complete before I piped in, as the builder of “Brahma-in-Zoom” microphone. Zoom provides firmware which creates a B format signal from their microphones, without height. But my issue has always been the odd arrangement of the capsules – front pair is XY, and the rear is MS, with a figure of eight sideways and a cardioid facing front.



Brahma-in-Zoom removes the original capsules and replaces it with a true tetrahedral array of 14 mm capsules. The microphone is then calibrated to produce a set of filtermatrix files. All recordings have to be processed with this matrix (Using Brahmavolver, X-Volver or VVencode) to produce B format recordings. There is now also a version with an array of 25 mm capsules mounted on top of the Zoom H2N and I am pleased with the results. This too is sold with calibration files. In fact, none of the microphones I sell are without calibration. There are a couple of second order designs I have built, but I am waiting on good and reliable calibration systems. Next week I will complete an all digital second order microphone, outputting to USB.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Gerard Lardner <***@iol.ie>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 5:01:07 AM
To: ***@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] [allowed] Re: ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

The Zoom H2n outputs A-format as two stereo files (wav or mp3)

Uumshankar is still producing the Brahma, and some interesting
developments from it; but no longer in association with Embrace Cinema
Gear (the original manufacturer for the Brahma Kickstart project).
Brahma Microphones is now at https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbrahmamic.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=2WIMwVJBC0vjHjmzVSWd4E8MhlvWWGEmkQnzb9KJbyY%3D&reserved=0


On 09/04/2018 23:16, Oddity Medium wrote:
> As I grok it, the Brahmas are significantly more expensive (3-4 times), and
> only output A-format. The Brahmas do perform FOA with-height. The Zoom H2N
> outputs WAV which is then massaged into pantophonic B-Format... correct?
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:28 PM, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> No you're not missing anything . You could use external mics with several
>> zoom H2s and do some surround stuff - but I digress. Read Endas reviews in
>> the link I posted - its probably the most in depth review of the Zoom H2N
>> for ambisonics you're likely to find. There is also Umashankars mod for the
>> zoom H2N which might interest you :
>>
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.kickstarter.com%2Fprojects%2F1569945514%2Fbrahma-&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=DqaSexjQUfTtn79BFe4AYJb7mm9KehDALo6K7u%2BMxAI%3D&reserved=0
>> affordable-ambisonics-microphone
>>
>> Im not sure if he's still doing it....
>>
>> On 9 April 2018 at 22:06, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> why would you use external mics for ambisonics if the h2n already does it
>>> (with the new firmware) ?
>>> because of better quality mics? or am i missing something?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Augustine Leudar <
>>> ***@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
>>> jack
>>>> in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise
>> ratio
>>>> was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with the
>>>> mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
>>>>
>>>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zoom-na.com%2Fproducts%2Ffield-video-&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=rmvjVJ9TaG5UnnYBHJD4I7tSikJP3gtkP42KVfveZl4%3D&reserved=0
>> recording/field-recording/
>>>> zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
>>>>
>>>> The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
>>> external
>>>> mics.
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>> URL: <https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Fprivate%2Fsursound%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=8P%2BC8owbuH5R34LeO%2FwK3y7npKZCfJA1EkahlOEJL08%3D&reserved=0
>>>> attachments/20180409/25ff40cf/attachment.html>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Augustine Leudar
>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
>> Company Number : NI635217
>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
>> Belfast BT88LL
>> https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.magikdoor.net&data=02%7C01%7C%7C0ef9e56f077c4c1007b908d59e720f50%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589135070951502&sdata=WQmRWJa%2BxxUB%2FE%2FjCt7sbXkBNUESZmmgwdPuj6I%2BAM8%3D&reserved=0
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Paul Hodges
2018-04-10 16:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
--On 10 April 2018 00:31 +0100 Gerard Lardner <***@iol.ie> wrote:

> The Zoom H2n outputs A-format as two stereo files (wav or mp3)

With the v2 firmware, it generates a four channel B-format wav file to
the Ambix convention.

Paul

--
Paul Hodges
Augustine Leudar
2018-04-09 21:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Heres a review of the predessesor the H2 :

As a low cost standalone field recorder/microphone combination the H2 is
> interesting. However, its limitations means it cannot really be recommended
> for wildife sound recording due to the limited gain and high noise level on
> the external microphone input .
> Either the internal mic capsules are unusually sensitive, or the signal
> path for these capsules is different to the external mic input.


https://www.wildlife-sound.org/resources/equipment/12-resources/equipment/70-zoom-h2

I think the H2N has improved a little bit - but Im not sure how much.


On 9 April 2018 at 21:57, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I also think there was some signal to noise ratio issues with the mini
> jack in especially for wildlife recordings - whereas the signal to noise
> ratio was lower with the onboard capsules. BTW this isnt the Zoom h4 with
> the mics on the side its the one with them in the top :
>
> https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/
> zoom-h2n-handy-recorder
>
> The Zoom h4 has XLR ins and is by all accounts a better choice for
> external mics.
>
>
>
>


--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
2018-04-10 05:37:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 04/09/2018 01:49 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
> My guess would be the AD converters are not great - DA converters are
> generally flat as a pankake these days but AD converters are not always on
> cheaper stuff. I tried it with various different microphones and was never
> happy - several other sI know found the same. Of course they dont have
> phantom power either ...

But the internal capsules do have phantom power! Which can lead to
SpHEAR Franken-Microphones like the one in the attached picture[*] :-)
That was the first prototype, works fine (too bad the H2N does not store
four channel recordings in "native" format, makes things more
difficult). One hole on one the side and the right connectors and you
are in (and a lot of work, mind you). I have yet to finish assembling
the second. Only so many hours in a day (24, last time I checked, too few).

-- Fernando

[*] part of the SpHEAR project:
https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/


> On 9 April 2018 at 21:43, David Pickett <***@fugato.com> wrote:
>
>> At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>> PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini
>> jack
>>> in and terrible quality.....
>>
>> Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level and
>> impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but having taken
>> care of that, why should the quality be worse than using the microphione
>> mounted on the side?
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Jack Reynolds
2018-04-10 08:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I recently built a tetrahedral array into a zoom h2n, but had problems with the m/s encoding of the first two channels eating into the already limited headroom of the mic pres. The signals are added together on the m channel and the resulting recording levels are very different on the first two channels when compared to channels 3 and 4.
I do with you could record channels 1 and 2 raw, like you can when in two channel m/s mode.

Jack
umashankar manthravadi
2018-04-10 09:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
We have modified more than a 100 Zoom H2ns into Brahma-in-Zoom. We have incorporated the MS to XY conversion into the filtermatrix so there is no need to do additional conversion. It would have been nice to have raw signals on the MS pair, but I can live with it.

The MS signal in my Zooms is always the rear pair. I wire it so I can see the meters during recording. I have not seen too many problems because the lower dynamic range on the MS pair (specifically on the M channel)

The external input on the Zoom h2n is rather odd. It has its own preamp and for some reason it is very poor quality compared to the four channels connected to the internal capsules.



umashankar





Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jack Reynolds <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 2:13:24 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?


I recently built a tetrahedral array into a zoom h2n, but had problems with the m/s encoding of the first two channels eating into the already limited headroom of the mic pres. The signals are added together on the m channel and the resulting recording levels are very different on the first two channels when compared to channels 3 and 4.
I do with you could record channels 1 and 2 raw, like you can when in two channel m/s mode.

Jack
_______________________________________________
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jack reynolds
2018-04-10 15:49:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Fernando - is your A2B matrix for the octathingy first order?

On 10 April 2018 at 06:37, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <***@ccrma.stanford.edu>
wrote:

> On 04/09/2018 01:49 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
>> My guess would be the AD converters are not great - DA converters are
>> generally flat as a pankake these days but AD converters are not always on
>> cheaper stuff. I tried it with various different microphones and was never
>> happy - several other sI know found the same. Of course they dont have
>> phantom power either ...
>>
>
> But the internal capsules do have phantom power! Which can lead to SpHEAR
> Franken-Microphones like the one in the attached picture[*] :-) That was
> the first prototype, works fine (too bad the H2N does not store four
> channel recordings in "native" format, makes things more difficult). One
> hole on one the side and the right connectors and you are in (and a lot of
> work, mind you). I have yet to finish assembling the second. Only so many
> hours in a day (24, last time I checked, too few).
>
> -- Fernando
>
> [*] part of the SpHEAR project:
> https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/
>
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 21:43, David Pickett <***@fugato.com> wrote:
>>
>> At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>
>>>> PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini
>>>>
>>> jack
>>>
>>>> in and terrible quality.....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level and
>>> impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but having
>>> taken
>>> care of that, why should the quality be worse than using the microphione
>>> mounted on the side?
>>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--

07889727365

02036861372

3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR


www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones

www.sohovr.co.uk
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jack reynolds
2018-04-10 15:54:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I've just noticed the second order function in A2B_matrix.m!

On 10 April 2018 at 16:49, jack reynolds <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Fernando - is your A2B matrix for the octathingy first order?
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 06:37, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <
> ***@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>> On 04/09/2018 01:49 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>
>>> My guess would be the AD converters are not great - DA converters are
>>> generally flat as a pankake these days but AD converters are not always
>>> on
>>> cheaper stuff. I tried it with various different microphones and was
>>> never
>>> happy - several other sI know found the same. Of course they dont have
>>> phantom power either ...
>>>
>>
>> But the internal capsules do have phantom power! Which can lead to SpHEAR
>> Franken-Microphones like the one in the attached picture[*] :-) That was
>> the first prototype, works fine (too bad the H2N does not store four
>> channel recordings in "native" format, makes things more difficult). One
>> hole on one the side and the right connectors and you are in (and a lot of
>> work, mind you). I have yet to finish assembling the second. Only so many
>> hours in a day (24, last time I checked, too few).
>>
>> -- Fernando
>>
>> [*] part of the SpHEAR project:
>> https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/
>>
>>
>> On 9 April 2018 at 21:43, David Pickett <***@fugato.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini
>>>>>
>>>> jack
>>>>
>>>>> in and terrible quality.....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level and
>>>> impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but having
>>>> taken
>>>> care of that, why should the quality be worse than using the microphione
>>>> mounted on the side?
>>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sursound mailing list
>> ***@music.vt.edu
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> 07889727365
>
> 02036861372
>
> 3 Swimmers Lane
> Haggerston
> London
> E2 8FR
>
>
> www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
>
> www.sohovr.co.uk
>
>
>


--

07889727365

02036861372

3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR


www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones

www.sohovr.co.uk
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Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
2018-04-10 17:13:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
> On 10 April 2018 at 16:49, jack reynolds <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Fernando - is your A2B matrix for the octathingy first order?
>>
On 04/10/2018 08:54 AM, jack reynolds wrote:
> I've just noticed the second order function in A2B_matrix.m!

There is some preliminary 2nd order support in the current git (WXYZUV).
I have quite a bit more that I have not checked in yet (bad programmer,
I should do that more often!). Currently it derives WXYZSTUV, but of
course that depends on having calibration measurements above and below
the horizontal plane. A 1st order mic, because of its symmetry, can be
calibrated with just horizontal plane measurements (much easier).

The current code is similar to what the 1st order calibration does, that
is, it assumes coincident capsules and derives a static A to B matrix in
a frequency range where the microphone array is well behaved, and then
creates FIR filters for each component that try to compensate for the
spacing of the capsules (same as Gerzon did a long time ago).

I actually should go back to my original approach (more complicated) for
1st order, which was to derive a 4x4 matrix of filters (which would be
8x8 for the 2nd order mic). The whole calibration software method needs
a new/better approach, I think, this is hack I thought would not work at
all :-)

In any case I'm working on the calibration for my second prototype. I
really need a better calibration rig so that more stuff can be
automated... I did a run on Friday but I did not notice the recorded
levels were too low, stuff that happens when you are in a hurry...

-- Fernando


>> On 10 April 2018 at 06:37, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <
>> ***@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/09/2018 01:49 PM, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>
>>>> My guess would be the AD converters are not great - DA converters are
>>>> generally flat as a pankake these days but AD converters are not always
>>>> on
>>>> cheaper stuff. I tried it with various different microphones and was
>>>> never
>>>> happy - several other sI know found the same. Of course they dont have
>>>> phantom power either ...
>>>>
>>>
>>> But the internal capsules do have phantom power! Which can lead to SpHEAR
>>> Franken-Microphones like the one in the attached picture[*] :-) That was
>>> the first prototype, works fine (too bad the H2N does not store four
>>> channel recordings in "native" format, makes things more difficult). One
>>> hole on one the side and the right connectors and you are in (and a lot of
>>> work, mind you). I have yet to finish assembling the second. Only so many
>>> hours in a day (24, last time I checked, too few).
>>>
>>> -- Fernando
>>>
>>> [*] part of the SpHEAR project:
>>> https://cm-gitlab.stanford.edu/ambisonics/SpHEAR/
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9 April 2018 at 21:43, David Pickett <***@fugato.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At 22:36 09-04-18, Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> PS thats with the onboard capsules though - the AD converter is a mini
>>>>>>
>>>>> jack
>>>>>
>>>>>> in and terrible quality.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is this? It is counter-intuitive. I mean, the actual input level and
>>>>> impedance may be non-standard and need some accommodation, but having
>>>>> taken
>>>>> care of that, why should the quality be worse than using the microphione
>>>>> mounted on the side?
>>>>>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sursound mailing list
>>> ***@music.vt.edu
>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> 07889727365
>>
>> 02036861372
>>
>> 3 Swimmers Lane
>> Haggerston
>> London
>> E2 8FR
>>
>>
>> www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
>>
>> www.sohovr.co.uk
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Fons Adriaensen
2018-04-10 19:17:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:13:17AM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:

> I actually should go back to my original approach (more complicated) for 1st
> order, which was to derive a 4x4 matrix of filters (which would be 8x8 for
> the 2nd order mic).

Not necessarily a good idea.

The problem with blindly inverting a matrix (in the F-domain, for each
bin of an FFT) is that it will produce some result no matter what you
throw at it. And of course, convolving the measurements with the
resulting matrix will always produce a result that looks perfect.
So you basically have no sanity checks at all.

Of the tens of calibrations I've seen that were done that way (for
tetrahedrals, eigenmics and others) there has been only *one* that
actually made sense. All the others were just inverting measurement
errors, or trying to correct things for which there is no sensible
remedy, like the Zoom's built-in mic array.

Regularisation can help, if it's done correctly. That means doing
the inversion using SVD with careful adjustment of the singular
values (depending on frequency), and not by just adding an arbitrary
constant to the denominator of 1/x for very low or high frequencies
as advocated in some publications.

Ciao,

--
FA
Fernando Lopez-Lezcano
2018-04-11 01:08:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 04/10/2018 12:17 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 10:13:17AM -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote:
>
>> I actually should go back to my original approach (more complicated) for 1st
>> order, which was to derive a 4x4 matrix of filters (which would be 8x8 for
>> the 2nd order mic).
>
> Not necessarily a good idea.

Thanks for chiming in! Yes, agreed, not necessarily a good idea.

> The problem with blindly inverting a matrix (in the F-domain, for each
> bin of an FFT) is that it will produce some result no matter what you
> throw at it. And of course, convolving the measurements with the
> resulting matrix will always produce a result that looks perfect.

When I was doing the 4x4 matrix (at low and mid frequencies, this was
for a different reason which turned out to be unnecessary, IMHO) I was
not actually inverting the FFT bins. I was deriving frequency response
curves for each capsule and Ambisonics component by calculating an A to
B matrix for logarithmically spaced frequency bands. And then creating
FIR filters from those curves (and those filters would converge into one
common filter for each component at high frequencies).

This was not a blind bin by bin inversion, but still "blind" in a sense.
For example, I did not do a frequency dependent selection of the width
of the frequency bands, which presumably could be used to do a better
job by ignoring regions or features of the spectrum for which correction
is irrelevant, and concentrating the effort in the places where
corrections are actually needed (after all the filters should not be a
surprise for a given capsule configuration).

> So you basically have no sanity checks at all.

Hmmm, I wonder (for my old approach). After I derive the filters I look
at the polar patterns of the recovered B format components. They look
just fine at low and mid frequencies, but I can also see the effect of
the degradation of the polar pattern of the capsules at high
frequencies. Or crosstalk between orders, also at high frequencies. A
test I did was to synthesize a cardioid in an arbitrary direction, and
see if it was actually a cardioid (or second order lobe in the case of
the Octathingy). Does it remain a cardioid (within reason) and keeps
pointing in the same direction? (within reason, again). The answer has
been normally yes, which means that to some degree the phase
relationship between components is correct, and tracks over frequency.

Anything else I could be looking for in terms of sanity? (other than
moving to a place where there is NO chance of having internet access, ha
ha :-).

(and then of course there is recording concerts and doing field
recordings... so far better ears than mine have been happy with the
results in terms of tonal color of the resulting microphone and spatial
characteristics of the recording, but this was definitely not a
scientific study).

It goes without saying that the results are heavily dependent on the
measurements themselves, GIGO (garbage in garbage out...). So easy to
make mistakes.

> Of the tens of calibrations I've seen that were done that way (for
> tetrahedrals, eigenmics and others) there has been only *one* that
> actually made sense. All the others were just inverting measurement
> errors, or trying to correct things for which there is no sensible
> remedy, like the Zoom's built-in mic array.
>
> Regularisation can help, if it's done correctly. That means doing
> the inversion using SVD with careful adjustment of the singular
> values (depending on frequency), and not by just adding an arbitrary
> constant to the denominator of 1/x for very low or high frequencies
> as advocated in some publications.

Noted, thanks for the advice!

I did a few tests again a while back and verified that at low and mid
frequencies the response from the different capsules was slightly
different (and maybe would benefit from a matrix of filters). High
frequencies, I do not know yet. I have to revisit this again...

Best,
-- Fernando
Eero Aro
2018-04-10 08:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Augustine Leudar wrote> My guess would be the AD converters are not great

I had my H2 measured by my then employer's Microphone Maintenance.
They also said that H2 is very good in many respects, but they said that
there is no use of using the 20 bit sampling rate, especially with
microphones
connected to the external mic input, as the SN ratio is so poor. You don't
benefit anything from the four extra bits.

Eero
Gerard Lardner
2018-04-09 23:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I have recorded several amateur choral concerts with a Zoom H2n using
the built-in mics. As Augustine says, the results can be remarkably
good. I prefer to use a 'proper' Ambisonic mic - in my case either a
Brahma or an Octava (one day I'll buy better mics; but the Brahma is
remarkably good) - with some additional spot mics. But really the Zoom
is often good enough.


On 09/04/2018 20:22, Oddity Medium wrote:
> Pros and cons of doing ambisonics with H2N? Has anyone of you tried?
>
> I can thikn of one pro - its cheap :=D
>

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Dave Hunt
2018-04-10 09:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,

I haven't included any of the previous correspondence in view of previous complaints.

The Zoom H2n may not be perfect, but it is incredibly practical and convenient, especially with the Rycote Audio Kit. Very portable and self contained, you can be recording anywhere in seconds, and the results are surprisingly good and very useable. Yes, horizontal only but often that is all that is required.

Of course there are other more expensive and better options, but the H2n is useful and very good value for money.

Ciao,

Dave
Enda Bates
2018-04-10 10:22:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi all,

so as Gus mentioned we did a detailed comparison of a number of Ambisonic microphones including the H2n, which you can find a summary of on my blog or in the original papers in the AES library for all the details. Here are my general thoughts.

- in general the H2n unsurprisingly can't quite compete with a proper Ambisonic microphone as it's missing height, and the irregular spacing of the capsules causes a reduction in localization accuracy and some other issues.

- however, it is definitely usable, and the fidelity of the inbuilt microphones is not bad at all considering the price, and ease of use. Especially for capturing general ambiences or the like it's more than usable, and I nearly always record with a H2n just as a backup as well as another Ambisonic microphone (this saved me on a couple of occasions).

- the price, and physical size are very useful as it is something you can stick in a bag and turn on and setup in seconds, which make it very handy for off the cuff recordings (although that's true of the Brahama also of course).


So my two cents, it's flawed but actually very good for the money.

enda

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umashankar manthravadi
2018-04-10 10:29:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
My modified Brahma-in-Zoom eliminates several of the flows. First, I am using matched sets of 14 mm capsules, mounted on a true tetrahedral array. Two, I calibrate the microphone, which eliminates quite a few of the irregularities which come from mounting the array in the body. I have some very good quality recordings using Brahma-in-Zoom.



It is till as compact and convenient if not as cheap.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Enda Bates <***@tcd.ie>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 3:52:41 PM
To: ***@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

Hi all,

so as Gus mentioned we did a detailed comparison of a number of Ambisonic microphones including the H2n, which you can find a summary of on my blog or in the original papers in the AES library for all the details. Here are my general thoughts.

- in general the H2n unsurprisingly can't quite compete with a proper Ambisonic microphone as it's missing height, and the irregular spacing of the capsules causes a reduction in localization accuracy and some other issues.

- however, it is definitely usable, and the fidelity of the inbuilt microphones is not bad at all considering the price, and ease of use. Especially for capturing general ambiences or the like it's more than usable, and I nearly always record with a H2n just as a backup as well as another Ambisonic microphone (this saved me on a couple of occasions).

- the price, and physical size are very useful as it is something you can stick in a bag and turn on and setup in seconds, which make it very handy for off the cuff recordings (although that's true of the Brahama also of course).


So my two cents, it's flawed but actually very good for the money.

enda

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Oddity Medium
2018-04-10 10:59:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
but what is the putput of the brahma-in-zoom? is it similar output to h2n?

for example suppose i dont have any recorder with me and i just need to
record something quickly, and i don't care about ambisonics so much as much
as getting a high quality ambience/recording, can i use the brahma-in-zoom?
will it output WAVs? or will i need to convert it with a computer

i guess my question is, do i need to do extra processing for every
recording with the brahma-in-zoom? cometimes i dont want to use a
DAW/software, i just wanna drag/drop the recording into a drive, straight
up WAV's and just play them, and not muck around with conversion, ardour,
bla bla - can i do this with the b-i-z?

i guess i'm saying, is the workflow much more complicated? frankly, i dont
wanna be near computers, i wanna be outdoors.

also, can i monitor live with headphone the b-i-z?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 12:29 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> My modified Brahma-in-Zoom eliminates several of the flows. First, I am
> using matched sets of 14 mm capsules, mounted on a true tetrahedral array.
> Two, I calibrate the microphone, which eliminates quite a few of the
> irregularities which come from mounting the array in the body. I have some
> very good quality recordings using Brahma-in-Zoom.
>
>
>
> It is till as compact and convenient if not as cheap.
>
>
>
> umashankar
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Enda Bates <
> ***@tcd.ie>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 3:52:41 PM
> To: ***@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
>
> Hi all,
>
> so as Gus mentioned we did a detailed comparison of a number of
> Ambisonic microphones including the H2n, which you can find a summary of on
> my blog or in the original papers in the AES library for all the details.
> Here are my general thoughts.
>
> - in general the H2n unsurprisingly can't quite compete with a proper
> Ambisonic microphone as it's missing height, and the irregular spacing of
> the capsules causes a reduction in localization accuracy and some other
> issues.
>
> - however, it is definitely usable, and the fidelity of the inbuilt
> microphones is not bad at all considering the price, and ease of use.
> Especially for capturing general ambiences or the like it's more than
> usable, and I nearly always record with a H2n just as a backup as well as
> another Ambisonic microphone (this saved me on a couple of occasions).
>
> - the price, and physical size are very useful as it is something you can
> stick in a bag and turn on and setup in seconds, which make it very handy
> for off the cuff recordings (although that's true of the Brahama also of
> course).
>
>
> So my two cents, it's flawed but actually very good for the money.
>
> enda
>
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umashankar manthravadi
2018-04-10 11:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
No and I do not know any ambisonic recordings that do not need some processing, Even when the output is B format, you have to process it to hear it.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:29:13 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

but what is the putput of the brahma-in-zoom? is it similar output to h2n?

for example suppose i dont have any recorder with me and i just need to
record something quickly, and i don't care about ambisonics so much as much
as getting a high quality ambience/recording, can i use the brahma-in-zoom?
will it output WAVs? or will i need to convert it with a computer

i guess my question is, do i need to do extra processing for every
recording with the brahma-in-zoom? cometimes i dont want to use a
DAW/software, i just wanna drag/drop the recording into a drive, straight
up WAV's and just play them, and not muck around with conversion, ardour,
bla bla - can i do this with the b-i-z?

i guess i'm saying, is the workflow much more complicated? frankly, i dont
wanna be near computers, i wanna be outdoors.

also, can i monitor live with headphone the b-i-z?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 12:29 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> My modified Brahma-in-Zoom eliminates several of the flows. First, I am
> using matched sets of 14 mm capsules, mounted on a true tetrahedral array.
> Two, I calibrate the microphone, which eliminates quite a few of the
> irregularities which come from mounting the array in the body. I have some
> very good quality recordings using Brahma-in-Zoom.
>
>
>
> It is till as compact and convenient if not as cheap.
>
>
>
> umashankar
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5b102313b34a42cc2bcd08d59ed224e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589547754304766&sdata=wQ0U4zNm8%2BAnKKo54gfSDIwNeac2h2NttQ7XtQcxoUw%3D&reserved=0> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Enda Bates <
> ***@tcd.ie>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 3:52:41 PM
> To: ***@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
>
> Hi all,
>
> so as Gus mentioned we did a detailed comparison of a number of
> Ambisonic microphones including the H2n, which you can find a summary of on
> my blog or in the original papers in the AES library for all the details.
> Here are my general thoughts.
>
> - in general the H2n unsurprisingly can't quite compete with a proper
> Ambisonic microphone as it's missing height, and the irregular spacing of
> the capsules causes a reduction in localization accuracy and some other
> issues.
>
> - however, it is definitely usable, and the fidelity of the inbuilt
> microphones is not bad at all considering the price, and ease of use.
> Especially for capturing general ambiences or the like it's more than
> usable, and I nearly always record with a H2n just as a backup as well as
> another Ambisonic microphone (this saved me on a couple of occasions).
>
> - the price, and physical size are very useful as it is something you can
> stick in a bag and turn on and setup in seconds, which make it very handy
> for off the cuff recordings (although that's true of the Brahama also of
> course).
>
>
> So my two cents, it's flawed but actually very good for the money.
>
> enda
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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Peter Lennox
2018-04-10 11:17:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Well, of course, you can just listen to 'W'

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


Sensitivity: Internal

-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of umashankar manthravadi
Sent: 10 April 2018 12:02
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

No and I do not know any ambisonic recordings that do not need some processing, Even when the output is B format, you have to process it to hear it.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:29:13 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

but what is the putput of the brahma-in-zoom? is it similar output to h2n?

for example suppose i dont have any recorder with me and i just need to record something quickly, and i don't care about ambisonics so much as much as getting a high quality ambience/recording, can i use the brahma-in-zoom?
will it output WAVs? or will i need to convert it with a computer

i guess my question is, do i need to do extra processing for every recording with the brahma-in-zoom? cometimes i dont want to use a DAW/software, i just wanna drag/drop the recording into a drive, straight up WAV's and just play them, and not muck around with conversion, ardour, bla bla - can i do this with the b-i-z?

i guess i'm saying, is the workflow much more complicated? frankly, i dont wanna be near computers, i wanna be outdoors.

also, can i monitor live with headphone the b-i-z?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 12:29 PM, umashankar manthravadi < ***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> My modified Brahma-in-Zoom eliminates several of the flows. First, I
> am using matched sets of 14 mm capsules, mounted on a true tetrahedral array.
> Two, I calibrate the microphone, which eliminates quite a few of the
> irregularities which come from mounting the array in the body. I have
> some very good quality recordings using Brahma-in-Zoom.
>
>
>
> It is till as compact and convenient if not as cheap.
>
>
>
> umashankar
>
>
>
> Sent from
> Mail<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> Fgo.microsoft.com%2Ffwlink%2F%3FLinkId%3D550986&data=02%7C01%7C%7C5b10
> 2313b34a42cc2bcd08d59ed224e7%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C
> 0%7C636589547754304766&sdata=wQ0U4zNm8%2BAnKKo54gfSDIwNeac2h2NttQ7XtQc
> xoUw%3D&reserved=0> for Windows 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Enda Bates
> < ***@tcd.ie>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 3:52:41 PM
> To: ***@music.vt.edu
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
>
> Hi all,
>
> so as Gus mentioned we did a detailed comparison of a number of
> Ambisonic microphones including the H2n, which you can find a summary
> of on my blog or in the original papers in the AES library for all the details.
> Here are my general thoughts.
>
> - in general the H2n unsurprisingly can't quite compete with a proper
> Ambisonic microphone as it's missing height, and the irregular spacing
> of the capsules causes a reduction in localization accuracy and some
> other issues.
>
> - however, it is definitely usable, and the fidelity of the inbuilt
> microphones is not bad at all considering the price, and ease of use.
> Especially for capturing general ambiences or the like it's more than
> usable, and I nearly always record with a H2n just as a backup as well
> as another Ambisonic microphone (this saved me on a couple of occasions).
>
> - the price, and physical size are very useful as it is something you
> can stick in a bag and turn on and setup in seconds, which make it
> very handy for off the cuff recordings (although that's true of the
> Brahama also of course).
>
>
> So my two cents, it's flawed but actually very good for the money.
>
> enda
>
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>
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Jack Reynolds
2018-04-10 11:26:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so you can use them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to B-Format or any number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
umashankar manthravadi
2018-04-10 11:36:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening to the front pair.



umashankar



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jack Reynolds <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:56:13 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?

It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so you can use them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to B-Format or any number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
_______________________________________________
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Oddity Medium
2018-04-10 11:52:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
but i cannot monitor live? isnt this a problem?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:36 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening to the
> front pair.
>
>
>
> umashankar
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jack Reynolds
> <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:56:13 PM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
>
> It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so you
> can use them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to B-Format
> or any number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
> 2Fsursound&data=02%7C01%7C%7C463f3cfe87ab46a2595c08d59ed5e92a%
> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589563929200753&sdata=
> zAWUKEh0iR4aR5qUHh25rY%2BT0BhZ3H7mvkbGbj2eV4Y%3D&reserved=0 - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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jack reynolds
2018-04-10 13:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
do you want monitor live binaurally?

you can monitor the individual channels, but I don't know of any way of
monitoring ambisonics live except for one of the Soundfield mics, which had
this built in to the controller

On 10 April 2018 at 12:52, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> but i cannot monitor live? isnt this a problem?
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:36 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
> ***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening to the
> > front pair.
> >
> >
> >
> > umashankar
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> > Windows 10
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jack
> Reynolds
> > <***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:56:13 PM
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
> >
> > It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so you
> > can use them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to
> B-Format
> > or any number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
> > 2Fsursound&data=02%7C01%7C%7C463f3cfe87ab46a2595c08d59ed5e92a%
> > 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589563929200753&sdata=
> > zAWUKEh0iR4aR5qUHh25rY%2BT0BhZ3H7mvkbGbj2eV4Y%3D&reserved=0 -
> unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
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> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
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>



--

07889727365

02036861372

3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR


www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones

www.sohovr.co.uk
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Oddity Medium
2018-04-10 13:05:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
yeah, binaurally

the new firmware on the mixpre allows live monitoring on the sennheiser
ambeos. i'm not comparing the two systems, as they are very different price
points (4 times apart) but i am asking, what does monitoring one channel of
A-format mean?
there is no W or omni in A-format right?

also i'm getting too pedantic maybe. a simpler question is, in practical
usage for you field recordists/musicians/sound designers out there, how
much of a hassle is this really?
the fact that at the end of the recording i cant just hand off the SD card
to someone with a ready stereo mix, but have to wait till i reach a
computer?

sorry if this is too personal

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:02 PM, jack reynolds <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

> do you want monitor live binaurally?
>
> you can monitor the individual channels, but I don't know of any way of
> monitoring ambisonics live except for one of the Soundfield mics, which had
> this built in to the controller
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 12:52, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > but i cannot monitor live? isnt this a problem?
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:36 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
> > ***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening to
> the
> > > front pair.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > umashankar
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> > > Windows 10
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jack
> > Reynolds
> > > <***@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:56:13 PM
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
> > >
> > > It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so you
> > > can use them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to
> > B-Format
> > > or any number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
> > > 2Fsursound&data=02%7C01%7C%7C463f3cfe87ab46a2595c08d59ed5e92a%
> > > 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636589563929200753&sdata=
> > > zAWUKEh0iR4aR5qUHh25rY%2BT0BhZ3H7mvkbGbj2eV4Y%3D&reserved=0 -
> > unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
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> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> 07889727365
>
> 02036861372
>
> 3 Swimmers Lane
> Haggerston
> London
> E2 8FR
>
>
> www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
>
> www.sohovr.co.uk
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Augustine Leudar
2018-04-10 13:09:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
You just have to monitor stereo on headphones - its sufficient

On 10 April 2018 at 14:05, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> yeah, binaurally
>
> the new firmware on the mixpre allows live monitoring on the sennheiser
> ambeos. i'm not comparing the two systems, as they are very different price
> points (4 times apart) but i am asking, what does monitoring one channel of
> A-format mean?
> there is no W or omni in A-format right?
>
> also i'm getting too pedantic maybe. a simpler question is, in practical
> usage for you field recordists/musicians/sound designers out there, how
> much of a hassle is this really?
> the fact that at the end of the recording i cant just hand off the SD card
> to someone with a ready stereo mix, but have to wait till i reach a
> computer?
>
> sorry if this is too personal
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:02 PM, jack reynolds <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > do you want monitor live binaurally?
> >
> > you can monitor the individual channels, but I don't know of any way of
> > monitoring ambisonics live except for one of the Soundfield mics, which
> had
> > this built in to the controller
> >
> > On 10 April 2018 at 12:52, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > but i cannot monitor live? isnt this a problem?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:36 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
> > > ***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening to
> > the
> > > > front pair.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > umashankar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> > > > Windows 10
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jack
> > > Reynolds
> > > > <***@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:56:13 PM
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so
> you
> > > > can use them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to
> > > B-Format
> > > > or any number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
> > > > 2Fsursound&data=02%7C01%7C%7C463f3cfe87ab46a2595c08d59ed5e92a%
> > > > 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
> 7C636589563929200753&sdata=
> > > > zAWUKEh0iR4aR5qUHh25rY%2BT0BhZ3H7mvkbGbj2eV4Y%3D&reserved=0 -
> > > unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
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> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here,
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> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 07889727365
> >
> > 02036861372
> >
> > 3 Swimmers Lane
> > Haggerston
> > London
> > E2 8FR
> >
> >
> > www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
> >
> > www.sohovr.co.uk
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
www.magikdoor.net
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jack reynolds
2018-04-10 13:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
if you just want a stereo binaural file to hand over, you are probably
better off with a binaural mic.

monitoring just one channel of the A-format is just listening to one of the
capsules, which will be pointing in a particular direction. Or you could
monitor the two front facing capsules and get quasi stereo.

The advantage of A-Format is it picks up the full soundfield, so you can
decide which direction you want your binaural render to be facing after you
have recorded it.

On 10 April 2018 at 14:05, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> yeah, binaurally
>
> the new firmware on the mixpre allows live monitoring on the sennheiser
> ambeos. i'm not comparing the two systems, as they are very different price
> points (4 times apart) but i am asking, what does monitoring one channel of
> A-format mean?
> there is no W or omni in A-format right?
>
> also i'm getting too pedantic maybe. a simpler question is, in practical
> usage for you field recordists/musicians/sound designers out there, how
> much of a hassle is this really?
> the fact that at the end of the recording i cant just hand off the SD card
> to someone with a ready stereo mix, but have to wait till i reach a
> computer?
>
> sorry if this is too personal
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:02 PM, jack reynolds <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > do you want monitor live binaurally?
> >
> > you can monitor the individual channels, but I don't know of any way of
> > monitoring ambisonics live except for one of the Soundfield mics, which
> had
> > this built in to the controller
> >
> > On 10 April 2018 at 12:52, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > but i cannot monitor live? isnt this a problem?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:36 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
> > > ***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening to
> > the
> > > > front pair.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > umashankar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> > > > Windows 10
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jack
> > > Reynolds
> > > > <***@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:56:13 PM
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so
> you
> > > > can use them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to
> > > B-Format
> > > > or any number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
> > > > 2Fsursound&data=02%7C01%7C%7C463f3cfe87ab46a2595c08d59ed5e92a%
> > > > 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
> 7C636589563929200753&sdata=
> > > > zAWUKEh0iR4aR5qUHh25rY%2BT0BhZ3H7mvkbGbj2eV4Y%3D&reserved=0 -
> > > unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
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> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > -------------- next part --------------
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> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 07889727365
> >
> > 02036861372
> >
> > 3 Swimmers Lane
> > Haggerston
> > London
> > E2 8FR
> >
> >
> > www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
> >
> > www.sohovr.co.uk
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--

07889727365

02036861372

3 Swimmers Lane
Haggerston
London
E2 8FR


www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones

www.sohovr.co.uk
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Oddity Medium
2018-04-10 13:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Mr Umashankar would be nice if you had a wide range of recordings
specifically from this mic available in A and B format on your website.
Not doubting your claims, but simply hoping to listen to some recordings
straight from the B-i-Z?

Anyone else want to comment on Brahma-in-Zoom quality either in this thread
or privately, please do message me.


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:15 PM, jack reynolds <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

> if you just want a stereo binaural file to hand over, you are probably
> better off with a binaural mic.
>
> monitoring just one channel of the A-format is just listening to one of the
> capsules, which will be pointing in a particular direction. Or you could
> monitor the two front facing capsules and get quasi stereo.
>
> The advantage of A-Format is it picks up the full soundfield, so you can
> decide which direction you want your binaural render to be facing after you
> have recorded it.
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 14:05, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > yeah, binaurally
> >
> > the new firmware on the mixpre allows live monitoring on the sennheiser
> > ambeos. i'm not comparing the two systems, as they are very different
> price
> > points (4 times apart) but i am asking, what does monitoring one channel
> of
> > A-format mean?
> > there is no W or omni in A-format right?
> >
> > also i'm getting too pedantic maybe. a simpler question is, in practical
> > usage for you field recordists/musicians/sound designers out there, how
> > much of a hassle is this really?
> > the fact that at the end of the recording i cant just hand off the SD
> card
> > to someone with a ready stereo mix, but have to wait till i reach a
> > computer?
> >
> > sorry if this is too personal
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:02 PM, jack reynolds <
> ***@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > do you want monitor live binaurally?
> > >
> > > you can monitor the individual channels, but I don't know of any way of
> > > monitoring ambisonics live except for one of the Soundfield mics, which
> > had
> > > this built in to the controller
> > >
> > > On 10 April 2018 at 12:52, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > but i cannot monitor live? isnt this a problem?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:36 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
> > > > ***@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening
> to
> > > the
> > > > > front pair.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > umashankar
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> > > > > Windows 10
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Jack
> > > > Reynolds
> > > > > <***@gmail.com>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 4:56:13 PM
> > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s just four cardioids pointing outwards from a central point, so
> > you
> > > > > can use them as individual signals if you want. Or encode them to
> > > > B-Format
> > > > > or any number of other virtual microphone arrangements.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > > https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> > > > > https%3A%2F%2Fmail.music.vt.edu%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%
> > > > > 2Fsursound&data=02%7C01%7C%7C463f3cfe87ab46a2595c08d59ed5e92a%
> > > > > 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
> > 7C636589563929200753&sdata=
> > > > > zAWUKEh0iR4aR5qUHh25rY%2BT0BhZ3H7mvkbGbj2eV4Y%3D&reserved=0 -
> > > > unsubscribe
> > > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > > > attachments/20180410/25f8f3dd/attachment.html>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here,
> > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > >
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > > attachments/20180410/41e8f03a/attachment.html>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > 07889727365
> > >
> > > 02036861372
> > >
> > > 3 Swimmers Lane
> > > Haggerston
> > > London
> > > E2 8FR
> > >
> > >
> > > www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
> > >
> > > www.sohovr.co.uk
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > attachments/20180410/6704c84e/attachment.html>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > attachments/20180410/77e6ed25/attachment.html>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> 07889727365
>
> 02036861372
>
> 3 Swimmers Lane
> Haggerston
> London
> E2 8FR
>
>
> www.facebook.com/reynoldsmicrophones
>
> www.sohovr.co.uk
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20180410/706aecf6/attachment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
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Paul Hodges
2018-04-10 16:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
--On 10 April 2018 11:01 +0000 umashankar manthravadi
<***@hotmail.com> wrote:

> No and I do not know any ambisonic recordings that do not need some
> processing, Even when the output is B format,

I listen to my B-format recordings directly, using the Blue Ripple
player (which will play both FuMa and Ambix files).

That's "directly" in that I don't have to undertake any further work
myself to reach this point.

Paul

--
Paul Hodges
Dave Hunt
2018-04-10 14:40:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,

As far as I can see the Zoom H2n only has a normal stereo headphone output, so any decoding to stereo or binaural would have to be in firmware.

At least the files recorded are horizontal B-Format in Ambix format, one stereo of W and Y, the other X and Z, Z being completely mute. They require no A to B format recoding.

Ciao,

Dave Hunt


On 10 Apr 2018, at 14:06, sursound-***@music.vt.edu wrote:

> From: Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
> Date: 10 April 2018 14:05:56 BST
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
>
>
> yeah, binaurally
>
> the new firmware on the mixpre allows live monitoring on the sennheiser
> ambeos. i'm not comparing the two systems, as they are very different price
> points (4 times apart) but i am asking, what does monitoring one channel of
> A-format mean?
> there is no W or omni in A-format right?
>
> also i'm getting too pedantic maybe. a simpler question is, in practical
> usage for you field recordists/musicians/sound designers out there, how
> much of a hassle is this really?
> the fact that at the end of the recording i cant just hand off the SD card
> to someone with a ready stereo mix, but have to wait till i reach a
> computer?
>
> sorry if this is too personal
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:02 PM, jack reynolds <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> do you want monitor live binaurally?
>>
>> you can monitor the individual channels, but I don't know of any way of
>> monitoring ambisonics live except for one of the Soundfield mics, which had
>> this built in to the controller
>>
>> On 10 April 2018 at 12:52, Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> but i cannot monitor live? isnt this a problem?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 1:36 PM, umashankar manthravadi <
>>> ***@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or get an approximate idea of what you are recording by listening to
>> the
>>>> front pair.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> umashankar
>>>>
Paul Hodges
2018-04-10 16:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
--On 09 April 2018 21:22 +0200 Oddity Medium <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Has anyone of you tried?

Just a few days ago; have a comparison track which uses all horizontal
directions (the choir processes from behind to the front by different
routes):

https://cassland.org/sounds/Hanacpachap(H2n,Ambix).WAV
https://cassland.org/sounds/Hanacpachap(TetraMic,FuMa).wav

Note the different file formats.

Paul

--
Paul Hodges
Dave Hunt
2018-04-10 16:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi again,

B-Format is the same sound field in a different format.

It is easily rotatable or invertible on any axis (not sure about that in higher orders) before the binaural render,

I must look at the H2n manual to see if it gives any information about what comes out of the headphone socket when in B-Format mode.

I have only really used it for capture in a situation where I needed to be discrete, and aware of everything that was happening around me, including the effects of my presence. Ambiences, walk throughs and impromptu encounters were what was to be captured. I could imagine what the recording was capturing and just needed to keep an eye on the meters every now and again and whether I was recording or not.

Wearing headphones and large furry microphones makes it obvious that you are recording, and lead to endless discussions with people about what you are recording and why.

Having tried binaural recording with small omnis in my ears, where monitoring on headphones would be highly undesirable, I had got used to not monitoring.

Ciao,

Dave

On 10 Apr 2018, at 17:00, sursound-***@music.vt.edu wrote:

> From: jack reynolds <***@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] ***UNCHECKED*** Zoom H2N - thoughts?
> Date: 10 April 2018 14:15:23 BST
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
>
>
> if you just want a stereo binaural file to hand over, you are probably
> better off with a binaural mic.
>
> monitoring just one channel of the A-format is just listening to one of the
> capsules, which will be pointing in a particular direction. Or you could
> monitor the two front facing capsules and get quasi stereo.
>
> The advantage of A-Format is it picks up the full soundfield, so you can
> decide which direction you want your binaural render to be facing after you
> have recorded it.
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