Discussion:
Sound Based Composition(surround)
(too old to reply)
霖の
2017-08-16 11:32:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub questions,here is a brief description :


1 The study purpose and sub-questions
1.1 Main Purpose
For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse people’s association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting perception experiences?

1.2 Perception
For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
1.3Cognition
In this part, the research question focus on cognition process (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge, etc.).
In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like “access tools” (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
1.4 Development
To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
1.5 Sound sculpture
As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music. Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as “sound sculpture” mentioned here.
As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the result to form a final dissertation.


Thank you very much,
Yilin
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-16 12:45:04 UTC
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You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?"
- but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement (acceleration, change of direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses. (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)


On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )

So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their lives.
Good luck!

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub questions,here is a brief description :


1 The study purpose and sub-questions
1.1 Main Purpose
For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting perception experiences?

1.2 Perception
For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
1.3Cognition
In this part, the research question focus on cognition process (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge, etc.).
In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
1.4 Development
To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
1.5 Sound sculpture
As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music. Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound sculpture" mentioned here.
As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the result to form a final dissertation.


Thank you very much,
Yilin
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-16 14:25:08 UTC
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As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio
cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play
with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound -
but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive
and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the
smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners and
effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying to
transport them to is..
Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience the
world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important
to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override
audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project - I
have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually
work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the
other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic -
from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a
headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is determining
how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get
away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am
also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I
make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to be
hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence etc) .
I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like
"sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually is
clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself
get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes
your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really engaged.

On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You seem to
> be saying something like "the perception of music partly relies on
> processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist for other than
> musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied to enrich music and
> sound art?"
> - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle of
> "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy and
> Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial
> Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with
> Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and Juliet) - you can
> hear that they rely on extra-musical associations about size (mass) and
> therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses. (Also
> have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
>
>
> On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in
> this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
>
> So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is not
> known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of formulating
> a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the key - trying to
> be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem
> that all academics wrestle with, all their lives.
> Good luck!
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated the
> art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub questions,here
> is a brief description :
>
>
> 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> 1.1 Main Purpose
> For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer world
> is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music, the sources
> may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use that information
> appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse people's
> association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to combine it with
> other art forms and effectively creates interesting perception experiences?
>
> 1.2 Perception
> For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based music
> composition, would it possible to break the typical perception habit or
> used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
> 1.3Cognition
> In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge, etc.).
> In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual artwork
> could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates fantastic
> artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic experiences? For
> example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning, and
> composed them appropriately, it would be act like "access tools" (Leigh
> Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to audiences and assist them
> understand the work more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the
> feelings or interact with artworks rather than struggle with questions like
> what is going on here.
> 1.4 Development
> To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork with
> other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> 1.5 Sound sculpture
> As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music. Essentially,
> music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so how about creating
> sound sculpture? It is like the natural world presented to us: when we come
> into a place, we will hear and see the surroundings and then understand
> what has happened here, so as "sound sculpture" mentioned here.
> As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a
> research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate the
> principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the result to
> form a final dissertation.
>
>
> Thank you very much,
> Yilin
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> and let them know.
>
> Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> _______________________________________________
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-16 14:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Wot he said...

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound - but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners and effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying to transport them to is..
Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience the world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project - I have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic - from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is determining how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to be hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence etc) .
I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually is clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really engaged.

On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> to enrich music and sound art?"
> - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> (acceleration, change of
> direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
>
>
> On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in
> this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
>
> So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their lives.
> Good luck!
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> questions,here is a brief description :
>
>
> 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> 1.1 Main Purpose
> For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to
> combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting perception experiences?
>
> 1.2 Perception
> For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
> 1.3Cognition
> In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge, etc.).
> In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like
> "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks
> rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> 1.4 Development
> To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> 1.5 Sound sculpture
> As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound sculpture" mentioned here.
> As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a
> research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate
> the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> result to form a final dissertation.
>
>
> Thank you very much,
> Yilin
> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> scrubbed...
> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender and let them know.
>
> Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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***@music.vt.edu
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.


The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender and let them know.

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Dave Malham
2017-08-16 19:06:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the side
so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio ones.
It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.

Dave


On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> Wot he said...
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> Augustine Leudar
> Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio
> cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play
> with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound -
> but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive
> and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the
> smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners and
> effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying to
> transport them to is..
> Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience the
> world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important
> to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override
> audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project - I
> have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually
> work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the
> other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic -
> from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a
> headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is determining
> how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get
> away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am
> also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I
> make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to be
> hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence etc) .
> I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like
> "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually is
> clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself
> get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes
> your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really engaged.
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > (acceleration, change of
> > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> >
> >
> > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in
> > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> >
> > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their lives.
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > questions,here is a brief description :
> >
> >
> > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to
> > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> perception experiences?
> >
> > 1.2 Perception
> > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
> > 1.3Cognition
> > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> etc.).
> > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like
> > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks
> > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > 1.4 Development
> > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> sculpture" mentioned here.
> > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a
> > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate
> > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > result to form a final dissertation.
> >
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> > Yilin
> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> >
> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > sender and let them know.
> >
> > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20170816/c71e43d4/attachment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> and let them know.
>
> Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--

As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.

These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University

Dave Malham
Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
The University of York
York YO10 5DD
UK

'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
-------------- next part --------------
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-16 21:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
with delusions of grandeur........

On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:

> I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the side
> so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio ones.
> It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Wot he said...
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio
> > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play
> > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound -
> > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive
> > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the
> > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> and
> > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying
> to
> > transport them to is..
> > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> the
> > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important
> > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override
> > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project -
> I
> > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually
> > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the
> > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic -
> > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a
> > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> determining
> > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get
> > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am
> > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I
> > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to
> be
> > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> etc) .
> > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like
> > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually
> is
> > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself
> > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes
> > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> engaged.
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > (acceleration, change of
> > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > >
> > >
> > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in
> > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > >
> > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> lives.
> > > Good luck!
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > >
> > >
> > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to
> > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > perception experiences?
> > >
> > > 1.2 Perception
> > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
> > > 1.3Cognition
> > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > etc.).
> > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like
> > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks
> > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > 1.4 Development
> > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a
> > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate
> > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you very much,
> > > Yilin
> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > > scrubbed...
> > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > sender and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > attachments/20170816/c71e43d4/attachment.html>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> >
> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> > and let them know.
> >
> > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
> Dave Malham
> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> The University of York
> York YO10 5DD
> UK
>
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> attachments/20170816/5f326f14/attachment.html>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-17 08:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.

it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular instances.

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA

Senior Lecturer in Perception

College of Arts, Humanities and Education

School of Arts



e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>

t: 01332 593155



https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox



University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK

________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
with delusions of grandeur........

On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:

> I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the side
> so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio ones.
> It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Wot he said...
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio
> > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play
> > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound -
> > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive
> > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the
> > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> and
> > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying
> to
> > transport them to is..
> > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> the
> > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important
> > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override
> > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project -
> I
> > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually
> > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the
> > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic -
> > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a
> > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> determining
> > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get
> > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am
> > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I
> > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to
> be
> > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> etc) .
> > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like
> > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually
> is
> > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself
> > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes
> > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> engaged.
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > (acceleration, change of
> > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > >
> > >
> > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in
> > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > >
> > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> lives.
> > > Good luck!
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > >
> > >
> > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to
> > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > perception experiences?
> > >
> > > 1.2 Perception
> > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
> > > 1.3Cognition
> > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > etc.).
> > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like
> > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks
> > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > 1.4 Development
> > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a
> > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate
> > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you very much,
> > > Yilin
> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > > scrubbed...
> > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > sender and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> >
> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> > and let them know.
> >
> > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
> Dave Malham
> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> The University of York
> York YO10 5DD
> UK
>
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-17 12:05:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
My favorite experiment/paper on this subject, which although old, is still
relevant, is "The role of head movements and vestibular and visual cues in
sound localization " Wallach 1940 - I can't seem to find it anywhere though
- if anyone has it and can post a PDF of it it would be very much
appreciated.

On 17 August 2017 at 09:42, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
> to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> audio altering visual perception.
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> instances.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
> football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
> a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
> with delusions of grandeur........
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> side
> > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> ones.
> > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Wot he said...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> audio
> > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> play
> > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound
> -
> > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> cognitive
> > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> the
> > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> > and
> > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> trying
> > to
> > > transport them to is..
> > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> > the
> > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> important
> > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> override
> > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project
> -
> > I
> > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> actually
> > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> the
> > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> topic -
> > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put
> a
> > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > determining
> > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> get
> > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I
> am
> > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean -
> I
> > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> to
> > be
> > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > etc) .
> > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> like
> > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> actually
> > is
> > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> yourself
> > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> makes
> > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > engaged.
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> in
> > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > >
> > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > lives.
> > > > Good luck!
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> ??
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> to
> > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > perception experiences?
> > > >
> > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> principles?
> > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > etc.).
> > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> like
> > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> artworks
> > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form
> a
> > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> manipulate
> > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > Yilin
> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > > > scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > sender and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender
> > > and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> >
> > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> >
> > Dave Malham
> > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > The University of York
> > York YO10 5DD
> > UK
> >
> > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> -------------- next part --------------
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> and let them know.
>
> Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Marc Lavallée
2017-08-17 12:14:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Available, but not free:
http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fh0054629

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:05:46 +0100
Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> My favorite experiment/paper on this subject, which although old, is
> still relevant, is "The role of head movements and vestibular and
> visual cues in sound localization " Wallach 1940 - I can't seem to
> find it anywhere though
> - if anyone has it and can post a PDF of it it would be very much
> appreciated.
>
> On 17 August 2017 at 09:42, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each
> > other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.
> >
> > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other,
> > since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues
> > -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to
> > dominate in particular instances.
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> >
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> >
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> >
> > School of Arts
> >
> >
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> >
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> >
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> >
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to
> > do with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you
> > see the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really
> > sucks being a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio
> > guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a
> > sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions
> > of grandeur........
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make,
> > > on the
> > side
> > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > audio
> > ones.
> > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > audio perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good
> > > luck with your phd.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Wot he said...
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > > School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf
> > > > Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > override
> > audio
> > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > like to
> > play
> > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions
> > > > with sound
> > -
> > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation
> > > > of
> > cognitive
> > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and
> > > > how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the
> > > > choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the
> > > > sight of a speaker, to
> > the
> > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > listeners
> > > and
> > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > are
> > trying
> > > to
> > > > transport them to is..
> > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > experience
> > > the
> > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something
> > > > more
> > important
> > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can
> > > > completely
> > override
> > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > their use. However I would suggest practice led research for
> > > > this kind of project
> > -
> > > I
> > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but
> > > > dont
> > actually
> > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say
> > > > do it
> > the
> > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > this
> > topic -
> > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in
> > > > VR. Although not sound based there is research for example in
> > > > VR - you put
> > a
> > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > research is
> > > determining
> > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > can you
> > get
> > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this
> > > > "curve". .....I
> > am
> > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you
> > > > mean -
> > I
> > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > technology
> > to
> > > be
> > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a
> > > > lot of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail
> > > > party effect and precedence
> > > etc) .
> > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of
> > > > terms
> > like
> > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I
> > > > understand the importance of academic writing style you have
> > > > the potential to write an interesting research project and
> > > > create a great portfolio which
> > actually
> > > is
> > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion
> > > > and not let
> > yourself
> > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > that
> > makes
> > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > really
> > > engaged.
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to
> > > > > interfere. But it seems to me that your main aim is too
> > > > > broad, too vague. You seem to be saying something like "the
> > > > > perception of music partly relies on processes (neural,
> > > > > cognitive and psychological) that exist for other than
> > > > > musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied to
> > > > > enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics',
> > > > > in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the
> > > > > Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112)
> > > > > - then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's
> > > > > "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and Juliet) - you
> > > > > can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations about
> > > > > size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > > (acceleration, change of direction) that might be expected
> > > > > for beings of differing masses. (Also have a listen to
> > > > > Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > interested
> > in
> > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that
> > > > > all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > lives.
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > Behalf Of
> > ??
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of
> > > > > the outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have
> > > > > extra-musical information. How to use that information
> > > > > appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse
> > > > > people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > to
> > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > interesting
> > > > perception experiences?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> > > > > worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the
> > > > > typical perception habit or used it to create artwork
> > > > > according to perception
> > principles?
> > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing
> > > > > knowledge,
> > > > etc.).
> > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning,
> > > > > and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > like
> > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the
> > > > > feelings or interact with
> > artworks
> > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on
> > > > > here. 1.4 Development
> > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations
> > > > > happen by this combination? 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like
> > > > > the natural world presented to us: when we come into a place,
> > > > > we will hear and see the surroundings and then understand
> > > > > what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > to form
> > a
> > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > manipulate
> > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract
> > > > > the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > Yilin
> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
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> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and
> > > > > so on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding
> > > > > email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > > the sender and let them know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and
> > > > > so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > unsubscribe
> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email
> > > > and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > the
> > sender
> > > > and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > unsubscribe
> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > >
> > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > University
> > >
> > > Dave Malham
> > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > > The University of York
> > > York YO10 5DD
> > > UK
> > >
> > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> > > -------------- next part --------------
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> >
> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > sender and let them know.
> >
> > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
Marc Lavallée
2017-08-17 12:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Correct link:
http://psycnet.apa.org/record/1941-00108-001

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 08:14:21 -0400
Marc Lavallée <***@hacklava.net> wrote:

> Available, but not free:
> http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fh0054629
>
> On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 13:05:46 +0100
> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My favorite experiment/paper on this subject, which although old, is
> > still relevant, is "The role of head movements and vestibular and
> > visual cues in sound localization " Wallach 1940 - I can't seem to
> > find it anywhere though
> > - if anyone has it and can post a PDF of it it would be very much
> > appreciated.
> >
> > On 17 August 2017 at 09:42, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each
> > > other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.
> > >
> > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the
> > > other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of
> > > cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to
> > > dominate in particular instances.
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > >
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > >
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > >
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > >
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to
> > > do with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you
> > > see the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really
> > > sucks being a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio
> > > guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a
> > > sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions
> > > of grandeur........
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make,
> > > > on the
> > > side
> > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > audio
> > > ones.
> > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > audio perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway,
> > > > good luck with your phd.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > > > School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > override
> > > audio
> > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > like to
> > > play
> > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions
> > > > > with sound
> > > -
> > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation
> > > > > of
> > > cognitive
> > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location
> > > > > and how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as
> > > > > the choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have
> > > > > from the sight of a speaker, to
> > > the
> > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > > listeners
> > > > and
> > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > > are
> > > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > > experience
> > > > the
> > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something
> > > > > more
> > > important
> > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can
> > > > > completely
> > > override
> > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > their use. However I would suggest practice led research for
> > > > > this kind of project
> > > -
> > > > I
> > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but
> > > > > dont
> > > actually
> > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would
> > > > > say do it
> > > the
> > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about
> > > > > it. There are loads of really interesting avenues of research
> > > > > in this
> > > topic -
> > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications
> > > > > in VR. Although not sound based there is research for example
> > > > > in VR - you put
> > > a
> > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > > research is
> > > > determining
> > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > > can you
> > > get
> > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this
> > > > > "curve". .....I
> > > am
> > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way
> > > > > you mean -
> > > I
> > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > technology
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a
> > > > > lot of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail
> > > > > party effect and precedence
> > > > etc) .
> > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in
> > > > > sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be
> > > > > wary of terms
> > > like
> > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I
> > > > > understand the importance of academic writing style you have
> > > > > the potential to write an interesting research project and
> > > > > create a great portfolio which
> > > actually
> > > > is
> > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion
> > > > > and not let
> > > yourself
> > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > that
> > > makes
> > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > really
> > > > engaged.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox
> > > > > <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to
> > > > > > interfere. But it seems to me that your main aim is too
> > > > > > broad, too vague. You seem to be saying something like "the
> > > > > > perception of music partly relies on processes (neural,
> > > > > > cognitive and psychological) that exist for other than
> > > > > > musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied to
> > > > > > enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics',
> > > > > > in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the
> > > > > > Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112)
> > > > > > - then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's
> > > > > > "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and Juliet) - you
> > > > > > can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations about
> > > > > > size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of
> > > > > > movement (acceleration, change of direction) that might be
> > > > > > expected for beings of differing masses. (Also have a
> > > > > > listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > interested
> > > in
> > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line
> > > > > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that
> > > > > > all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > > lives.
> > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > ??
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic
> > > > > > unit. I'm thinking about it and developed main question and
> > > > > > sub questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of
> > > > > > the outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have
> > > > > > extra-musical information. How to use that information
> > > > > > appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse
> > > > > > people's association and extra-musical experiences? And,
> > > > > > How
> > > to
> > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used
> > > > > > and worked together all the time. For artwork creation,
> > > > > > including sound-based music composition, would it possible
> > > > > > to break the typical perception habit or used it to create
> > > > > > artwork according to perception
> > > principles?
> > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition
> > > > > > process (understanding through thought, experience, and
> > > > > > existing knowledge,
> > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning,
> > > > > > and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > > like
> > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the
> > > > > > feelings or interact with
> > > artworks
> > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on
> > > > > > here. 1.4 Development
> > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will
> > > > > > innovations happen by this combination? 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based
> > > > > > music. Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences
> > > > > > to audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is
> > > > > > like the natural world presented to us: when we come into a
> > > > > > place, we will hear and see the surroundings and then
> > > > > > understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > > to form
> > > a
> > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going
> > > > > > to
> > > manipulate
> > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then
> > > > > > extract the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > Yilin
> > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment
> > > > > > was scrubbed...
> > > > > > URL:
> > > > > > <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > > > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ Sursound
> > > > > > mailing list ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and
> > > > > > so on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding
> > > > > > email and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply
> > > > > > to the sender and let them know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Key University contacts:
> > > > > > http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > > _______________________________________________ Sursound
> > > > > > mailing list ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and
> > > > > > so on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > > > attachments/20170816/c71e43d4/attachment.html>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > > unsubscribe
> > > here,
> > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email
> > > > > and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > > the
> > > sender
> > > > > and let them know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > > unsubscribe
> > > here,
> > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > >
> > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > Dave Malham
> > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > > > The University of York
> > > > York YO10 5DD
> > > > UK
> > > >
> > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so
> > > > on.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > sender and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > attachments/20170817/360dabcc/attachment.html>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
John Merchant
2017-08-18 14:56:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
If anyone is interested, here's a copy of the paper Gus mentioned.

________________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 7:05 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

My favorite experiment/paper on this subject, which although old, is still
relevant, is "The role of head movements and vestibular and visual cues in
sound localization " Wallach 1940 - I can't seem to find it anywhere though
- if anyone has it and can post a PDF of it it would be very much
appreciated.

On 17 August 2017 at 09:42, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
> to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> audio altering visual perception.
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> instances.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
> football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
> a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
> with delusions of grandeur........
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> side
> > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> ones.
> > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Wot he said...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> audio
> > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> play
> > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound
> -
> > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> cognitive
> > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> the
> > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> > and
> > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> trying
> > to
> > > transport them to is..
> > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> > the
> > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> important
> > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> override
> > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project
> -
> > I
> > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> actually
> > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> the
> > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> topic -
> > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put
> a
> > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > determining
> > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> get
> > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I
> am
> > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean -
> I
> > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> to
> > be
> > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > etc) .
> > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> like
> > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> actually
> > is
> > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> yourself
> > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> makes
> > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > engaged.
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> in
> > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > >
> > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > lives.
> > > > Good luck!
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> ??
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> to
> > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > perception experiences?
> > > >
> > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> principles?
> > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > etc.).
> > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> like
> > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> artworks
> > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form
> a
> > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> manipulate
> > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > Yilin
> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > > > scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > sender and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > attachments/20170816/c71e43d4/attachment.html>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender
> > > and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> >
> > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> >
> > Dave Malham
> > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > The University of York
> > York YO10 5DD
> > UK
> >
> > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> -------------- next part --------------
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> and let them know.
>
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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John Merchant
2017-08-18 14:59:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hmm, looks like the server removes any attachments.

Try this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-vV4Aoij_dmZE9iNGcxVGFzdG8/view?usp=sharing

________________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of John Merchant <***@mtsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:56 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

If anyone is interested, here's a copy of the paper Gus mentioned.

________________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 7:05 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

My favorite experiment/paper on this subject, which although old, is still
relevant, is "The role of head movements and vestibular and visual cues in
sound localization " Wallach 1940 - I can't seem to find it anywhere though
- if anyone has it and can post a PDF of it it would be very much
appreciated.

On 17 August 2017 at 09:42, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
> to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> audio altering visual perception.
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> instances.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
> football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
> a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
> with delusions of grandeur........
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> side
> > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> ones.
> > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Wot he said...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> audio
> > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> play
> > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound
> -
> > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> cognitive
> > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> the
> > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> > and
> > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> trying
> > to
> > > transport them to is..
> > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> > the
> > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> important
> > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> override
> > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project
> -
> > I
> > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> actually
> > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> the
> > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> topic -
> > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put
> a
> > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > determining
> > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> get
> > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I
> am
> > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean -
> I
> > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> to
> > be
> > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > etc) .
> > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> like
> > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> actually
> > is
> > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> yourself
> > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> makes
> > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > engaged.
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> in
> > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > >
> > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > lives.
> > > > Good luck!
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> ??
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> to
> > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > perception experiences?
> > > >
> > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> principles?
> > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > etc.).
> > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> like
> > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> artworks
> > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form
> a
> > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> manipulate
> > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > Yilin
> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > > > scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > sender and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender
> > > and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> >
> > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> >
> > Dave Malham
> > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > The University of York
> > York YO10 5DD
> > UK
> >
> > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> and let them know.
>
> Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> -------------- next part --------------
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> URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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umashankar manthravadi
2017-08-18 15:04:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thank you. I had been looking for years for any research on head movement and sound localization. I know papers for visual cues and head movement and had assumed that similar effects should exist for sound. I am not an academic.

umashankar

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: John Merchant<mailto:***@mtsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 8:29 PM
To: Surround Sound discussion group<mailto:***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

Hmm, looks like the server removes any attachments.

Try this:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-vV4Aoij_dmZE9iNGcxVGFzdG8/view?usp=sharing

________________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of John Merchant <***@mtsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2017 9:56 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

If anyone is interested, here's a copy of the paper Gus mentioned.

________________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2017 7:05 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

My favorite experiment/paper on this subject, which although old, is still
relevant, is "The role of head movements and vestibular and visual cues in
sound localization " Wallach 1940 - I can't seem to find it anywhere though
- if anyone has it and can post a PDF of it it would be very much
appreciated.

On 17 August 2017 at 09:42, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
> to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> audio altering visual perception.
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> instances.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
> football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
> a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
> with delusions of grandeur........
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> side
> > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> ones.
> > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Wot he said...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> audio
> > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> play
> > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound
> -
> > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> cognitive
> > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> the
> > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> > and
> > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> trying
> > to
> > > transport them to is..
> > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> > the
> > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> important
> > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> override
> > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project
> -
> > I
> > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> actually
> > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> the
> > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> topic -
> > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put
> a
> > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > determining
> > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> get
> > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I
> am
> > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean -
> I
> > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> to
> > be
> > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > etc) .
> > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> like
> > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> actually
> > is
> > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> yourself
> > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> makes
> > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > engaged.
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> in
> > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > >
> > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > lives.
> > > > Good luck!
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> ??
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> to
> > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > perception experiences?
> > > >
> > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> principles?
> > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > etc.).
> > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> like
> > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> artworks
> > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form
> a
> > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> manipulate
> > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > Yilin
> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > > > scrubbed...
> > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
> > > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > sender and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender
> > > and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> >
> > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> >
> > Dave Malham
> > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > The University of York
> > York YO10 5DD
> > UK
> >
> > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> and let them know.
>
> Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> -------------- next part --------------
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> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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David Worrall
2017-08-17 16:24:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Another compelling example of aural-dominated visual experience is to observe the effect to which the music of a film scene can radically effect not only the emotional experience of the experience, but of the meaning of the images themselves.

I suspect whether or not the image object(s) is static or in motion is also a contributor.



Cheers to all,



David



---

David Worrall, PhD

Professor and Chair

Audio Arts and Acoustics Department

School of Media Arts

Columbia College Chicago

33 E Congress Pkwy Room 601N

Chicago, ILLINOIS, USA 60605

Tel: (1)312.369.8821 Fax: (1)312.369.8427

President, International Community for Auditory Display icad.org

personal research/creative practice website: avatar.com.au





From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Date: Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 3:42 AM
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)



The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.



it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular instances.



Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA



Senior Lecturer in Perception



College of Arts, Humanities and Education



School of Arts







e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>



t: 01332 593155







https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox



https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox







University of Derby,

Kedleston Road,

Derby,

DE22 1GB, UK



________________________________

From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>

Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46

To: Surround Sound discussion group

Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)



This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a

football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the

ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist

sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like

a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher

with delusions of grandeur........



On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:



I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the side

so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio ones.

It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual

overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions

can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.



Dave





On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:



> Wot he said...

>

> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA

> Senior Lecturer in Perception

> College of Arts, Humanities and Education

> School of Arts

>

> e: ***@derby.ac.uk

> t: 01332 593155

>

> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox

> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

>

> University of Derby,

> Kedleston Road,

> Derby,

> DE22 1GB, UK

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of

> Augustine Leudar

> Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25

> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>

> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

>

> As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio

> cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play

> with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound -

> but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive

> and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it

> looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,

> every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the

> smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners

and

> effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying

to

> transport them to is..

> Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience

the

> world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important

> to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override

> audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.

> However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project -

I

> have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually

> work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the

> other way round here - find out what works then write about it.

> There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic -

> from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.

> Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a

> headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight

> line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is

determining

> how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get

> away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am

> also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I

> make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to

be

> hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of

> installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and

> cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence

etc) .

> I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound

> installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like

> "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the

> importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an

> interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually

is

> clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric

> language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself

> get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes

> your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really

engaged.

>

> On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

>

> > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.

> > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You

> > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly

> > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist

> > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied

> > to enrich music and sound art?"

> > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle

> > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy

> > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of

> > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble

> > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and

> > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations

> > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement

> > (acceleration, change of

> > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.

> > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)

> >

> >

> > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in

> > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/

> > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )

> >

> > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is

> > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of

> > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the

> > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to

> > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their

lives.

> > Good luck!

> >

> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA

> > Senior Lecturer in Perception

> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts

> >

> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk

> > t: 01332 593155

> >

> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox

> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

> >

> > University of Derby,

> > Kedleston Road,

> > Derby,

> > DE22 1GB, UK

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??

> > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33

> > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>

> > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

> >

> > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.

> > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated

> > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.

> > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub

> > questions,here is a brief description :

> >

> >

> > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions

> > 1.1 Main Purpose

> > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer

> > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,

> > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use

> > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could

> > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to

> > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting

> perception experiences?

> >

> > 1.2 Perception

> > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked

> > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based

> > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception

> > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?

> > 1.3Cognition

> > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process

> > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,

> etc.).

> > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual

> > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates

> > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic

> > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with

> > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like

> > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to

> > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,

> > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks

> > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.

> > 1.4 Development

> > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive

> > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork

> > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?

> > 1.5 Sound sculpture

> > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.

> > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so

> > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world

> > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the

> > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound

> sculpture" mentioned here.

> > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a

> > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate

> > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the

> > result to form a final dissertation.

> >

> >

> > Thank you very much,

> > Yilin

> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was

> > scrubbed...

> > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/

> > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html>

> > _______________________________________________

> > Sursound mailing list

> > ***@music.vt.edu

> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe

> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.

> >

> >

> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and

> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.

> > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the

> > sender and let them know.

> >

> > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/

> > _______________________________________________

> > Sursound mailing list

> > ***@music.vt.edu

> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe

> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Dr. Augustine Leudar

> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD

> Company Number : NI635217

> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,

> Belfast BT88LL

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--



As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.



These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University



Dave Malham

Honorary Fellow, Department of Music

The University of York

York YO10 5DD

UK



'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'

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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-17 20:35:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
There's no doubt that our perception of the world is a complex interplay of
all our senses coupled with various concepts nestling in our brain . Any of
us who work in audio (especially film, theatre etc) can frequently be heard
moaning about how underappreciated audio is and how without it the
production would be nothing etc etc. However ask most people whether they'd
rather be blind or deaf... . Its quite common to close your eyes to
appreciate music but I have never known someone to cover their ears to
appreciate a painting. There is plenty of evidence that our visual sense is
generally dominant in general to our other senses in our culture (but not
always and it depends on the situation of course ) .and this obviously
changes in low light levels . In the rain-forest sound is just as important
as sight because your visual range is limited. Audio cues are often
preferred in theatre to visual cues as you can hear round corners, and
through actors.
But really I'm referring to acoustic and spatial audio cues here .I once
investigated this after reading Wallachs experiment (quoted below).Very
briefly :

The experiment describes someone standing inside a rotating fabric
> cylinder. Although they are stood stock still ,due to the stripes on the
> inside of the rotating cylinder they perceive themselves to be rotating not
> the cylinder. There is a loudspeaker on the other side of this fabric
> cylinder pointing directly between their ears so ILDs and ITDs are equal.
> They should localise the speaker directly in front of them (or behind) but
> they don't. Instead they localise the sound directly above their head. This
> is because if they are rotating(they are not but their brain thinks they
> are) then the only place a sound can be if it doesnt move in the horizontal
> plane is directly above them .


upon reading this I wondered how I could use such research to deceive
audiences - and if there may be equally striking example of audio cues
overriding visual ones - I could find very few whereas I found more
examples of visual cues overriding audio ones. But its not just about
vision or hearing or smelling - its about what people expect to perceive
.It all depends on context - how we perceive anything visually, aurally or
anything else depends on the context. IF you walk into a rainforest and
hear rainforest sounds you are not suprised - if you open your fridge
freezer and they emanate from inside it - you would be. I'm saving that one
for my mother in law.

Wallachs experiment :



> "When an observer is placed inside a revolving screen he will, after a
> while, no longer perceive the surrounding screen in motion; rather he will
> feel himself rotating
> in a direction opposite..."
> ". A loudspeaker is placed at some distance beyond the screen straight in
> front of the observer whose head is kept in a constant position by a
> chin-rest. When now during induced movement a sound is presented in the
> loudspeaker, the above conditions for hearing a sound vertically above
> are given: the head of the observer 'turns about a vertical axis, and at
> the same time the sound remains always in a median position with
> reference to the head. In this stiuation the sound is actually heard
> vertically above." Wallach 1940 p 362-363




On 17 August 2017 at 17:24, David Worrall <***@avatar.com.au> wrote:

> Another compelling example of aural-dominated visual experience is to
> observe the effect to which the music of a film scene can radically effect
> not only the emotional experience of the experience, but of the meaning of
> the images themselves.
>
> I suspect whether or not the image object(s) is static or in motion is
> also a contributor.
>
>
>
> Cheers to all,
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> ---
>
> David Worrall, PhD
>
> Professor and Chair
>
> Audio Arts and Acoustics Department
>
> School of Media Arts
>
> Columbia College Chicago
>
> 33 E Congress Pkwy Room 601N
>
> Chicago, ILLINOIS, USA 60605
>
> Tel: (1)312.369.8821 Fax: (1)312.369.8427
>
> President, International Community for Auditory Display icad.org
>
> personal research/creative practice website: avatar.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Peter Lennox <
> ***@derby.ac.uk>
> Reply-To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Date: Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 3:42 AM
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
>
>
> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
> to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> audio altering visual perception.
>
>
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> instances.
>
>
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
>
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
>
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
>
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
>
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
>
> Kedleston Road,
>
> Derby,
>
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
>
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
>
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
>
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
>
> football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
>
> ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
>
> sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
>
> a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
>
> with delusions of grandeur........
>
>
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the side
>
> so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio ones.
>
> It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
>
> overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
>
> can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Wot he said...
>
> >
>
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> > School of Arts
>
> >
>
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
>
> > t: 01332 593155
>
> >
>
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> >
>
> > University of Derby,
>
> > Kedleston Road,
>
> > Derby,
>
> > DE22 1GB, UK
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
>
> > Augustine Leudar
>
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
>
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> >
>
> > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio
>
> > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play
>
> > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound -
>
> > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive
>
> > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
>
> > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
>
> > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the
>
> > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
>
> and
>
> > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying
>
> to
>
> > transport them to is..
>
> > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
>
> the
>
> > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important
>
> > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override
>
> > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
>
> > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project -
>
> I
>
> > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually
>
> > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the
>
> > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
>
> > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic -
>
> > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
>
> > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a
>
> > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
>
> > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
>
> determining
>
> > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get
>
> > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am
>
> > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I
>
> > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to
>
> be
>
> > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
>
> > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
>
> > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
>
> etc) .
>
> > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
>
> > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like
>
> > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
>
> > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
>
> > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually
>
> is
>
> > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
>
> > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself
>
> > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes
>
> > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
>
> engaged.
>
> >
>
> > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
>
> > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
>
> > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
>
> > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
>
> > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
>
> > > to enrich music and sound art?"
>
> > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
>
> > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
>
> > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
>
> > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
>
> > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
>
> > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
>
> > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
>
> > > (acceleration, change of
>
> > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
>
> > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in
>
> > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
>
> > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
>
> > >
>
> > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
>
> > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
>
> > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
>
> > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
>
> > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
>
> lives.
>
> > > Good luck!
>
> > >
>
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
>
> > >
>
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
>
> > > t: 01332 593155
>
> > >
>
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> > >
>
> > > University of Derby,
>
> > > Kedleston Road,
>
> > > Derby,
>
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
>
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
>
> > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
>
> > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> > >
>
> > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
>
> > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
>
> > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
>
> > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
>
> > > questions,here is a brief description :
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
>
> > > 1.1 Main Purpose
>
> > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
>
> > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
>
> > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
>
> > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
>
> > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to
>
> > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
>
> > perception experiences?
>
> > >
>
> > > 1.2 Perception
>
> > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
>
> > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
>
> > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
>
> > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
>
> > > 1.3Cognition
>
> > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
>
> > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
>
> > etc.).
>
> > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
>
> > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
>
> > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
>
> > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
>
> > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like
>
> > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
>
> > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
>
> > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks
>
> > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
>
> > > 1.4 Development
>
> > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
>
> > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
>
> > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
>
> > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
>
> > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
>
> > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
>
> > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
>
> > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
>
> > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
>
> > sculpture" mentioned here.
>
> > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a
>
> > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate
>
> > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
>
> > > result to form a final dissertation.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Thank you very much,
>
> > > Yilin
>
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> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > Sursound mailing list
>
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
>
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
>
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
>
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
>
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
>
> > > sender and let them know.
>
> > >
>
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> > > Sursound mailing list
>
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
>
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>
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
>
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
>
> > Company Number : NI635217
>
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
>
> > Belfast BT88LL
>
> > -------------- next part --------------
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>
> > Sursound mailing list
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> > ***@music.vt.edu
>
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
>
> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
>
> > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
>
> > and let them know.
>
> >
>
> > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Sursound mailing list
>
> > ***@music.vt.edu
>
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
>
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
>
>
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
>
>
> Dave Malham
>
> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
>
> The University of York
>
> York YO10 5DD
>
> UK
>
>
>
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
>
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> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
>
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
>
> Company Number : NI635217
>
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
>
> Belfast BT88LL
>
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>
>
>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
>
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> and let them know.
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>
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Fons Adriaensen
2017-08-16 20:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 08:06:59PM +0100, Dave Malham wrote:

> I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the side
> so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio ones.

Maybe not always, but visual cues seem to be quite dominant compared
to audio.

For the last few monts I've been working on binaural rendering of
HOA signals, with head motion tracking. One critical aspect of this
is externalisation of sounds in the frontal section. Seeing some
speakers there seems to help, even if you know very well that the
sound you hear is not coming from those speakers. This seems to
affect both expert and less-than-expert listeners equally.

Ciao,

--
FA

A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia.
It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow)
霖の
2017-08-17 12:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
And..
Dr. Peter Lennox , thank you for introducing so many related researchers. I'll check it out and think about your suggestions carefully.


P.s I don't have supervisor at present so everything relies on myself...


Yilin




------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2017 10:29 PM
To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;

Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)



Wot he said...

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound - but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners and effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying to transport them to is..
Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience the world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project - I have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic - from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is determining how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to be hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence etc) .
I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually is clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really engaged.

On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> to enrich music and sound art?"
> - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> (acceleration, change of
> direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
>
>
> On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in
> this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
>
> So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their lives.
> Good luck!
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> questions,here is a brief description :
>
>
> 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> 1.1 Main Purpose
> For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to
> combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting perception experiences?
>
> 1.2 Perception
> For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
> 1.3Cognition
> In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge, etc.).
> In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like
> "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks
> rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> 1.4 Development
> To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> 1.5 Sound sculpture
> As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound sculpture" mentioned here.
> As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a
> research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate
> the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> result to form a final dissertation.
>
>
> Thank you very much,
> Yilin
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> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender and let them know.
>
> Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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霖の
2017-08-17 12:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather than just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.


About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is quite different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people have tried to find a more humanization way to present those art works, combination is one of a choice.


About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists. To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to create sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting point to be research.






------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;

Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)



The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.

it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular instances.

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA

Senior Lecturer in Perception

College of Arts, Humanities and Education

School of Arts



e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>

t: 01332 593155



https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox



University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK

________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
with delusions of grandeur........

On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:

> I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the side
> so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio ones.
> It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Wot he said...
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override audio
> > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to play
> > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound -
> > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of cognitive
> > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to the
> > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> and
> > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are trying
> to
> > transport them to is..
> > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> the
> > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more important
> > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely override
> > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project -
> I
> > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont actually
> > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it the
> > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this topic -
> > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put a
> > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> determining
> > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you get
> > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I am
> > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean - I
> > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology to
> be
> > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> etc) .
> > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms like
> > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which actually
> is
> > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let yourself
> > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that makes
> > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> engaged.
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > (acceleration, change of
> > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > >
> > >
> > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested in
> > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > >
> > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> lives.
> > > Good luck!
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > >
> > >
> > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How to
> > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > perception experiences?
> > >
> > > 1.2 Perception
> > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception principles?
> > > 1.3Cognition
> > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > etc.).
> > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act like
> > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with artworks
> > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > 1.4 Development
> > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form a
> > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to manipulate
> > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you very much,
> > > Yilin
> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> > > scrubbed...
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > sender and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
> >
> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> > and let them know.
> >
> > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Sursound mailing list
> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
>
> These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
>
> Dave Malham
> Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> The University of York
> York YO10 5DD
> UK
>
> 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Phi Shu
2017-08-17 18:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on being
an academic?

Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book
definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be it sonic
arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc. etc.) forget
all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and like it or not you
will always be distracted by having to pander to either academic or 'art
world' gatekeepers. All these silly little boxes people want to put things
in are a distraction. Focus on what you want to say artistically, what you
want to express, don't get wrapped up in trying to make it fit within a
preexisting frame.

Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied" in there
somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive experience" is sexy now
too, money being thrown at that
<http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next-generation-of-immersive-experiences/>
.

On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:

> Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I don't
> know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is exactly what
> Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In that case, the
> objects... is more like a train of thought rather than just propose some
> problems for future research. I'm afraid that will limit the creation as
> well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.
>
>
> About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first time, I
> used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic music
> style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The purpose
> is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite potential
> sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm not rejected to
> use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is quite
> different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio engineer as
> well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides,
> combine club electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and
> with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people have
> tried to find a more humanization way to present those art works,
> combination is one of a choice.
>
>
> About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one dominate
> another. What I referred here is human always percept the world with all
> senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every senses which is
> intuitive. If artists use those principles to create sth special, that
> would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, sound always provided
> informations that visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting
> point to be research.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
> From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
>
>
> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
> to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> audio altering visual perception.
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> instances.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
> football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
> a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
> with delusions of grandeur........
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> side
> > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> ones.
> > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Wot he said...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> audio
> > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> play
> > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound
> -
> > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> cognitive
> > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> the
> > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> > and
> > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> trying
> > to
> > > transport them to is..
> > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> > the
> > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> important
> > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> override
> > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project
> -
> > I
> > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> actually
> > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> the
> > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> topic -
> > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put
> a
> > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > determining
> > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> get
> > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I
> am
> > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean -
> I
> > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> to
> > be
> > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > etc) .
> > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> like
> > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> actually
> > is
> > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> yourself
> > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> makes
> > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > engaged.
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> in
> > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > >
> > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > lives.
> > > > Good luck!
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> ??
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> to
> > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > perception experiences?
> > > >
> > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> principles?
> > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > etc.).
> > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> like
> > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> artworks
> > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form
> a
> > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> manipulate
> > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > Yilin
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> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
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> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > sender and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender
> > > and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> >
> > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> >
> > Dave Malham
> > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > The University of York
> > York YO10 5DD
> > UK
> >
> > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
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> and let them know.
>
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-17 19:17:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Dont forget "interactive" and "gesture based" Phi....

On 17 August 2017 at 19:06, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on being
> an academic?
>
> Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book
> definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be it sonic
> arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc. etc.) forget
> all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and like it or not you
> will always be distracted by having to pander to either academic or 'art
> world' gatekeepers. All these silly little boxes people want to put things
> in are a distraction. Focus on what you want to say artistically, what you
> want to express, don't get wrapped up in trying to make it fit within a
> preexisting frame.
>
> Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied" in there
> somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive experience" is sexy now
> too, money being thrown at that
> <http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/
> research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next-
> generation-of-immersive-experiences/>
> .
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I don't
> > know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is exactly what
> > Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In that case, the
> > objects... is more like a train of thought rather than just propose some
> > problems for future research. I'm afraid that will limit the creation as
> > well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.
> >
> >
> > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first time,
> I
> > used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic
> music
> > style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The
> purpose
> > is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite potential
> > sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm not rejected
> to
> > use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is quite
> > different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio engineer
> as
> > well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> > psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides,
> > combine club electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it,
> and
> > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people have
> > tried to find a more humanization way to present those art works,
> > combination is one of a choice.
> >
> >
> > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one dominate
> > another. What I referred here is human always percept the world with all
> > senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every senses which is
> > intuitive. If artists use those principles to create sth special, that
> > would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, sound always provided
> > informations that visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting
> > point to be research.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> >
> >
> > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> > alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each
> other,
> > to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> > audio altering visual perception.
> >
> > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> > the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> > the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> > instances.
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> >
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> >
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> >
> > School of Arts
> >
> >
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> >
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> >
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> >
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> > Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> with a
> > football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> > ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> > sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What
> like
> > a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button
> pusher
> > with delusions of grandeur........
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> > side
> > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> > ones.
> > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio
> perceptions
> > > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wot he said...
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > > School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > Augustine Leudar
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> > audio
> > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> > play
> > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> sound
> > -
> > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > cognitive
> > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how
> it
> > > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of
> sounds,
> > > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> > the
> > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> listeners
> > > and
> > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> > trying
> > > to
> > > > transport them to is..
> > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> experience
> > > the
> > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > important
> > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > override
> > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their
> use.
> > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> project
> > -
> > > I
> > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > actually
> > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> > the
> > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> > topic -
> > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you
> put
> > a
> > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> straight
> > > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > > determining
> > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> > get
> > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> .....I
> > am
> > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean
> -
> > I
> > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> > to
> > > be
> > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic
> and
> > > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > > etc) .
> > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> > like
> > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write
> an
> > > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> > actually
> > > is
> > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> esoteric
> > > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> > yourself
> > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> > makes
> > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > > engaged.
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that
> exist
> > > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be
> applied
> > > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> principle
> > > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan,
> McCarthy
> > > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the
> bumble
> > > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> > in
> > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much
> is
> > > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is
> the
> > > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want
> to
> > > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > lives.
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > ??
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> designated
> > > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> outer
> > > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to
> use
> > > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > to
> > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > > perception experiences?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> worked
> > > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical
> perception
> > > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> > principles?
> > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > > etc.).
> > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound
> with
> > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > like
> > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences
> to
> > > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> > artworks
> > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> cognitive
> > > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this
> combination?
> > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences,
> so
> > > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see
> the
> > > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as
> "sound
> > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to
> form
> > a
> > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > manipulate
> > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > Yilin
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > > sender and let them know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > > Belfast BT88LL
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> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > sender
> > > > and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > >
> > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> > >
> > > Dave Malham
> > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > > The University of York
> > > York YO10 5DD
> > > UK
> > >
> > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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> >
> >
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> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-17 19:20:29 UTC
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Raw Message
...and "extended mind", and "augmented perception", and "multimodal perception", along with "superadditive effects"


Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA

Senior Lecturer in Perception

College of Arts, Humanities and Education

School of Arts



e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>

t: 01332 593155



https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox



University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK

________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
Sent: 17 August 2017 20:17:37
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

Dont forget "interactive" and "gesture based" Phi....

On 17 August 2017 at 19:06, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on being
> an academic?
>
> Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book
> definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be it sonic
> arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc. etc.) forget
> all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and like it or not you
> will always be distracted by having to pander to either academic or 'art
> world' gatekeepers. All these silly little boxes people want to put things
> in are a distraction. Focus on what you want to say artistically, what you
> want to express, don't get wrapped up in trying to make it fit within a
> preexisting frame.
>
> Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied" in there
> somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive experience" is sexy now
> too, money being thrown at that
> <http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/
> research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next-
> generation-of-immersive-experiences/>
> .
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I don't
> > know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is exactly what
> > Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In that case, the
> > objects... is more like a train of thought rather than just propose some
> > problems for future research. I'm afraid that will limit the creation as
> > well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.
> >
> >
> > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first time,
> I
> > used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic
> music
> > style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The
> purpose
> > is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite potential
> > sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm not rejected
> to
> > use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is quite
> > different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio engineer
> as
> > well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> > psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides,
> > combine club electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it,
> and
> > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people have
> > tried to find a more humanization way to present those art works,
> > combination is one of a choice.
> >
> >
> > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one dominate
> > another. What I referred here is human always percept the world with all
> > senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every senses which is
> > intuitive. If artists use those principles to create sth special, that
> > would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, sound always provided
> > informations that visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting
> > point to be research.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> >
> >
> > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> > alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each
> other,
> > to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> > audio altering visual perception.
> >
> > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> > the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> > the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> > instances.
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> >
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> >
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> >
> > School of Arts
> >
> >
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> >
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> >
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> >
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> > Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> with a
> > football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> > ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> > sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What
> like
> > a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button
> pusher
> > with delusions of grandeur........
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> > side
> > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> > ones.
> > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio
> perceptions
> > > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wot he said...
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > > School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > Augustine Leudar
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> > audio
> > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> > play
> > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> sound
> > -
> > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > cognitive
> > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how
> it
> > > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of
> sounds,
> > > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> > the
> > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> listeners
> > > and
> > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> > trying
> > > to
> > > > transport them to is..
> > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> experience
> > > the
> > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > important
> > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > override
> > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their
> use.
> > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> project
> > -
> > > I
> > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > actually
> > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> > the
> > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> > topic -
> > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you
> put
> > a
> > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> straight
> > > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > > determining
> > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> > get
> > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> .....I
> > am
> > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean
> -
> > I
> > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> > to
> > > be
> > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic
> and
> > > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > > etc) .
> > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> > like
> > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write
> an
> > > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> > actually
> > > is
> > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> esoteric
> > > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> > yourself
> > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> > makes
> > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > > engaged.
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that
> exist
> > > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be
> applied
> > > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> principle
> > > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan,
> McCarthy
> > > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the
> bumble
> > > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> > in
> > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much
> is
> > > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is
> the
> > > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want
> to
> > > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > lives.
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > ??
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> designated
> > > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> outer
> > > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to
> use
> > > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > to
> > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > > perception experiences?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> worked
> > > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical
> perception
> > > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> > principles?
> > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > > etc.).
> > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound
> with
> > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > like
> > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences
> to
> > > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> > artworks
> > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> cognitive
> > > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this
> combination?
> > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences,
> so
> > > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see
> the
> > > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as
> "sound
> > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to
> form
> > a
> > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > manipulate
> > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > Yilin
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > > sender and let them know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > > Belfast BT88LL
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> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > sender
> > > > and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
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> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > >
> > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> > >
> > > Dave Malham
> > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > > The University of York
> > > York YO10 5DD
> > > UK
> > >
> > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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霖の
2017-08-18 05:16:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Well, on compositional area, including audiovisual music composition, it still quite hard to create sth like "immersive experiences" or "multimodal perception". However, imaginary experiences may created if appropriate sound sources and composing techniques has been referred.




------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
Date: Fri, Aug 18, 2017 03:20 AM
To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;

Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)



...and "extended mind", and "augmented perception", and "multimodal perception", along with "superadditive effects"


Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA

Senior Lecturer in Perception

College of Arts, Humanities and Education

School of Arts



e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>

t: 01332 593155



https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox



University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK

________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
Sent: 17 August 2017 20:17:37
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

Dont forget "interactive" and "gesture based" Phi....

On 17 August 2017 at 19:06, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on being
> an academic?
>
> Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book
> definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be it sonic
> arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc. etc.) forget
> all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and like it or not you
> will always be distracted by having to pander to either academic or 'art
> world' gatekeepers. All these silly little boxes people want to put things
> in are a distraction. Focus on what you want to say artistically, what you
> want to express, don't get wrapped up in trying to make it fit within a
> preexisting frame.
>
> Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied" in there
> somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive experience" is sexy now
> too, money being thrown at that
> <http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/
> research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next-
> generation-of-immersive-experiences/>
> .
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I don't
> > know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is exactly what
> > Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In that case, the
> > objects... is more like a train of thought rather than just propose some
> > problems for future research. I'm afraid that will limit the creation as
> > well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.
> >
> >
> > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first time,
> I
> > used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic
> music
> > style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The
> purpose
> > is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite potential
> > sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm not rejected
> to
> > use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is quite
> > different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio engineer
> as
> > well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> > psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides,
> > combine club electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it,
> and
> > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people have
> > tried to find a more humanization way to present those art works,
> > combination is one of a choice.
> >
> >
> > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one dominate
> > another. What I referred here is human always percept the world with all
> > senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every senses which is
> > intuitive. If artists use those principles to create sth special, that
> > would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, sound always provided
> > informations that visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting
> > point to be research.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> >
> >
> > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> > alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each
> other,
> > to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> > audio altering visual perception.
> >
> > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> > the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> > the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> > instances.
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> >
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> >
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> >
> > School of Arts
> >
> >
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> >
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> >
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> >
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> > Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> with a
> > football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> > ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> > sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What
> like
> > a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button
> pusher
> > with delusions of grandeur........
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> > side
> > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> > ones.
> > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio
> perceptions
> > > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wot he said...
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > > School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > Augustine Leudar
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> > audio
> > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> > play
> > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> sound
> > -
> > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > cognitive
> > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how
> it
> > > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of
> sounds,
> > > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> > the
> > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> listeners
> > > and
> > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> > trying
> > > to
> > > > transport them to is..
> > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> experience
> > > the
> > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > important
> > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > override
> > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their
> use.
> > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> project
> > -
> > > I
> > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > actually
> > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> > the
> > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> > topic -
> > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you
> put
> > a
> > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> straight
> > > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > > determining
> > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> > get
> > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> .....I
> > am
> > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean
> -
> > I
> > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> > to
> > > be
> > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic
> and
> > > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > > etc) .
> > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> > like
> > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write
> an
> > > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> > actually
> > > is
> > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> esoteric
> > > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> > yourself
> > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> > makes
> > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > > engaged.
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that
> exist
> > > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be
> applied
> > > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> principle
> > > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan,
> McCarthy
> > > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the
> bumble
> > > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> > in
> > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much
> is
> > > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is
> the
> > > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want
> to
> > > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > lives.
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > ??
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> designated
> > > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> outer
> > > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to
> use
> > > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > to
> > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > > perception experiences?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> worked
> > > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical
> perception
> > > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> > principles?
> > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > > etc.).
> > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound
> with
> > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > like
> > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences
> to
> > > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> > artworks
> > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> cognitive
> > > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this
> combination?
> > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences,
> so
> > > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see
> the
> > > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as
> "sound
> > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to
> form
> > a
> > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > manipulate
> > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > Yilin
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> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > > sender and let them know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > > Belfast BT88LL
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> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > sender
> > > > and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
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> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > >
> > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> > >
> > > Dave Malham
> > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > > The University of York
> > > York YO10 5DD
> > > UK
> > >
> > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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> >
> >
> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the sender
> > and let them know.
> >
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-18 09:57:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I'm just publishing a paper - well, writing it - on multimodal spatial music. (and "immersive" crops up a lot in subjects' comments)

Also, see: Nanayakkara, S. C. Enhancing Musical Experience for the Hearing-impaired using Visual and Haptic Feedback.
Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering, National University of Singapore. PhD Thesis. 2006

The point being that, whilst multimodal techniques may produce useful assistive technologies, we found that they can also be enjoyed by those without hearing impairment. The trick is to rethink what the constraints on composition actually are, if it's a new type of experience.

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK

-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
Sent: 18 August 2017 06:17
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

Well, on compositional area, including audiovisual music composition, it still quite hard to create sth like "immersive experiences" or "multimodal perception". However, imaginary experiences may created if appropriate sound sources and composing techniques has been referred.




------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
Date: Fri, Aug 18, 2017 03:20 AM
To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;

Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)



...and "extended mind", and "augmented perception", and "multimodal perception", along with "superadditive effects"


Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA

Senior Lecturer in Perception

College of Arts, Humanities and Education

School of Arts



e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>

t: 01332 593155



https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox



University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK

________________________________
From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
Sent: 17 August 2017 20:17:37
To: Surround Sound discussion group
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

Dont forget "interactive" and "gesture based" Phi....

On 17 August 2017 at 19:06, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on
> being an academic?
>
> Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book
> definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be it
> sonic arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc.
> etc.) forget all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and like
> it or not you will always be distracted by having to pander to either
> academic or 'art world' gatekeepers. All these silly little boxes
> people want to put things in are a distraction. Focus on what you want
> to say artistically, what you want to express, don't get wrapped up in
> trying to make it fit within a preexisting frame.
>
> Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied" in
> there somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive experience" is
> sexy now too, money being thrown at that
> <http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/
> research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next-
> generation-of-immersive-experiences/>
> .
>
> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I
> > don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is
> > exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In
> > that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather
> > than just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that
> > will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.
> >
> >
> > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > time,
> I
> > used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic
> music
> > style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The
> purpose
> > is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite
> > potential sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm
> > not rejected
> to
> > use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is
> > quite different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio
> > engineer
> as
> > well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> > psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly.
> > Besides, combine club electronic means extract some approaches or
> > ideas from it,
> and
> > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people
> > have tried to find a more humanization way to present those art
> > works, combination is one of a choice.
> >
> >
> > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the
> > world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using
> > every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to
> > create sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But
> > indeed, sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot
> > present. That's also a interesting point to be research.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> >
> >
> > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > through each
> other,
> > to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example
> > of audio altering visual perception.
> >
> > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other,
> > since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the
> > sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in
> > particular instances.
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> >
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> >
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> >
> > School of Arts
> >
> >
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> >
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> >
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> >
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> with a
> > football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way
> > the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a
> > sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a
> > sound artist ? What
> like
> > a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button
> pusher
> > with delusions of grandeur........
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on
> > > the
> > side
> > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > audio
> > ones.
> > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > audio
> perceptions
> > > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wot he said...
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf
> > > > Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > override
> > audio
> > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > like to
> > play
> > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> sound
> > -
> > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > cognitive
> > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and
> > > > how
> it
> > > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of
> sounds,
> > > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a
> > > > speaker, to
> > the
> > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> listeners
> > > and
> > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > are
> > trying
> > > to
> > > > transport them to is..
> > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> experience
> > > the
> > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > important
> > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > override
> > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > their
> use.
> > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> project
> > -
> > > I
> > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > actually
> > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say
> > > > do it
> > the
> > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > this
> > topic -
> > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > you
> put
> > a
> > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> straight
> > > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > > determining
> > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > can you
> > get
> > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> .....I
> > am
> > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you
> > > > mean
> -
> > I
> > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > technology
> > to
> > > be
> > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot
> > > > of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > psychoacoustic
> and
> > > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and
> > > > precedence
> > > etc) .
> > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of
> > > > terms
> > like
> > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand
> > > > the importance of academic writing style you have the potential
> > > > to write
> an
> > > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> > actually
> > > is
> > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> esoteric
> > > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> > yourself
> > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > that
> > makes
> > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > really
> > > engaged.
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music
> > > > > partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > psychological) that
> exist
> > > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be
> applied
> > > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> principle
> > > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan,
> McCarthy
> > > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology
> > > > > of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of
> > > > > the
> bumble
> > > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo
> > > > > and
> > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the
> > > > > sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > Debussey)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > interested
> > in
> > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > much
> is
> > > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this
> > > > > stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work.
> > > > > Simplicity is
> the
> > > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you
> > > > > want
> to
> > > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all
> > > > > their
> > > lives.
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > Behalf Of
> > ??
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> designated
> > > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> outer
> > > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based
> > > > > music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical
> > > > > information. How to
> use
> > > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it
> > > > > could arouse people's association and extra-musical
> > > > > experiences? And, How
> > to
> > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > interesting
> > > > perception experiences?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> worked
> > > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the
> > > > > typical
> perception
> > > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> > principles?
> > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing
> > > > > knowledge,
> > > > etc.).
> > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound
> with
> > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be
> > > > > act
> > like
> > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > experiences
> to
> > > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily.
> > > > > Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings or interact
> > > > > with
> > artworks
> > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> cognitive
> > > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based
> > > > > artwork with other forms of art, will innovations happen by
> > > > > this
> combination?
> > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > audiences,
> so
> > > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural
> > > > > world presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear
> > > > > and see
> the
> > > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as
> "sound
> > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > to
> form
> > a
> > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > manipulate
> > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract
> > > > > the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > Yilin
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> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email
> > > > > and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > > the sender and let them know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email
> > > > and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > the
> > sender
> > > > and let them know.
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> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > here,
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > >
> > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > University
> > >
> > > Dave Malham
> > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > YO10 5DD UK
> > >
> > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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> >
> >
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-18 10:03:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
funny Peter - I am just working on interactive spatialisation tool that
incorporates haptic feedback to manipulate sounds in 3D space as well, you
use your hands to place and manipulate sounds in 3D space - but there are
sensors that allow you to feel the sounds as well - using tiny air jets

On 18 August 2017 at 10:57, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> I'm just publishing a paper - well, writing it - on multimodal spatial
> music. (and "immersive" crops up a lot in subjects' comments)
>
> Also, see: Nanayakkara, S. C. Enhancing Musical Experience for the
> Hearing-impaired using Visual and Haptic Feedback.
> Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering, National University of
> Singapore. PhD Thesis. 2006
>
> The point being that, whilst multimodal techniques may produce useful
> assistive technologies, we found that they can also be enjoyed by those
> without hearing impairment. The trick is to rethink what the constraints on
> composition actually are, if it's a new type of experience.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> Sent: 18 August 2017 06:17
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> Well, on compositional area, including audiovisual music composition, it
> still quite hard to create sth like "immersive experiences" or "multimodal
> perception". However, imaginary experiences may created if appropriate
> sound sources and composing techniques has been referred.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
> From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> Date: Fri, Aug 18, 2017 03:20 AM
> To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
>
>
> ...and "extended mind", and "augmented perception", and "multimodal
> perception", along with "superadditive effects"
>
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 17 August 2017 20:17:37
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> Dont forget "interactive" and "gesture based" Phi....
>
> On 17 August 2017 at 19:06, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on
> > being an academic?
> >
> > Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book
> > definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be it
> > sonic arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc.
> > etc.) forget all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and like
> > it or not you will always be distracted by having to pander to either
> > academic or 'art world' gatekeepers. All these silly little boxes
> > people want to put things in are a distraction. Focus on what you want
> > to say artistically, what you want to express, don't get wrapped up in
> > trying to make it fit within a preexisting frame.
> >
> > Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied" in
> > there somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive experience" is
> > sexy now too, money being thrown at that
> > <http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/
> > research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next-
> > generation-of-immersive-experiences/>
> > .
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I
> > > don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is
> > > exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In
> > > that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather
> > > than just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that
> > > will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal
> really confuse me.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > > time,
> > I
> > > used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic
> > music
> > > style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The
> > purpose
> > > is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite
> > > potential sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm
> > > not rejected
> > to
> > > use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is
> > > quite different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio
> > > engineer
> > as
> > > well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> > > psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly.
> > > Besides, combine club electronic means extract some approaches or
> > > ideas from it,
> > and
> > > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people
> > > have tried to find a more humanization way to present those art
> > > works, combination is one of a choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> artists.
> > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the
> > > world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using
> > > every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to
> > > create sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But
> > > indeed, sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot
> > > present. That's also a interesting point to be research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > through each
> > other,
> > > to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example
> > > of audio altering visual perception.
> > >
> > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other,
> > > since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the
> > > sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in
> > > particular instances.
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > >
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > >
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > >
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > >
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> > with a
> > > football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way
> > > the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a
> > > sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a
> > > sound artist ? What
> > like
> > > a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button
> > pusher
> > > with delusions of grandeur........
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on
> > > > the
> > > side
> > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > audio
> > > ones.
> > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > audio
> > perceptions
> > > > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf
> > > > > Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > override
> > > audio
> > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > like to
> > > play
> > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> > sound
> > > -
> > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > > cognitive
> > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and
> > > > > how
> > it
> > > > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of
> > sounds,
> > > > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a
> > > > > speaker, to
> > > the
> > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > listeners
> > > > and
> > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > > are
> > > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > experience
> > > > the
> > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > > important
> > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > > override
> > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > their
> > use.
> > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > project
> > > -
> > > > I
> > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > > actually
> > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say
> > > > > do it
> > > the
> > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > > this
> > > topic -
> > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > > you
> > put
> > > a
> > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > straight
> > > > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > > > determining
> > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > > can you
> > > get
> > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > .....I
> > > am
> > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you
> > > > > mean
> > -
> > > I
> > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > technology
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot
> > > > > of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > psychoacoustic
> > and
> > > > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and
> > > > > precedence
> > > > etc) .
> > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of
> > > > > terms
> > > like
> > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand
> > > > > the importance of academic writing style you have the potential
> > > > > to write
> > an
> > > > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> > > actually
> > > > is
> > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > esoteric
> > > > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> > > yourself
> > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > that
> > > makes
> > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > really
> > > > engaged.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music
> > > > > > partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > > psychological) that
> > exist
> > > > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be
> > applied
> > > > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > principle
> > > > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan,
> > McCarthy
> > > > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology
> > > > > > of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of
> > > > > > the
> > bumble
> > > > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the
> > > > > > sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > interested
> > > in
> > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > much
> > is
> > > > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this
> > > > > > stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work.
> > > > > > Simplicity is
> > the
> > > > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you
> > > > > > want
> > to
> > > > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all
> > > > > > their
> > > > lives.
> > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > ??
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > designated
> > > > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> > outer
> > > > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based
> > > > > > music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical
> > > > > > information. How to
> > use
> > > > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it
> > > > > > could arouse people's association and extra-musical
> > > > > > experiences? And, How
> > > to
> > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> > worked
> > > > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the
> > > > > > typical
> > perception
> > > > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> > > principles?
> > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing
> > > > > > knowledge,
> > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound
> > with
> > > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be
> > > > > > act
> > > like
> > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > experiences
> > to
> > > > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily.
> > > > > > Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings or interact
> > > > > > with
> > > artworks
> > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > cognitive
> > > > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based
> > > > > > artwork with other forms of art, will innovations happen by
> > > > > > this
> > combination?
> > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > audiences,
> > so
> > > > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural
> > > > > > world presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear
> > > > > > and see
> > the
> > > > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as
> > "sound
> > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > > to
> > form
> > > a
> > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > > manipulate
> > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract
> > > > > > the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > Yilin
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > >
> > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > Dave Malham
> > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > > YO10 5DD UK
> > > >
> > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-18 10:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
That's interesting - often idly wondered how to do that (these academics, eh?) - I don't know if sufficient control is feasible, but you might be able to modulate the output of the airjets with discernible frequencies (prob. up to 2K, but could be higher)?

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: 18 August 2017 11:03
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

funny Peter - I am just working on interactive spatialisation tool that incorporates haptic feedback to manipulate sounds in 3D space as well, you use your hands to place and manipulate sounds in 3D space - but there are sensors that allow you to feel the sounds as well - using tiny air jets

On 18 August 2017 at 10:57, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> I'm just publishing a paper - well, writing it - on multimodal spatial
> music. (and "immersive" crops up a lot in subjects' comments)
>
> Also, see: Nanayakkara, S. C. Enhancing Musical Experience for the
> Hearing-impaired using Visual and Haptic Feedback.
> Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering, National University
> of Singapore. PhD Thesis. 2006
>
> The point being that, whilst multimodal techniques may produce useful
> assistive technologies, we found that they can also be enjoyed by
> those without hearing impairment. The trick is to rethink what the
> constraints on composition actually are, if it's a new type of experience.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of ??
> Sent: 18 August 2017 06:17
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> Well, on compositional area, including audiovisual music composition,
> it still quite hard to create sth like "immersive experiences" or
> "multimodal perception". However, imaginary experiences may created
> if appropriate sound sources and composing techniques has been referred.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
> From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> Date: Fri, Aug 18, 2017 03:20 AM
> To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
>
>
> ...and "extended mind", and "augmented perception", and "multimodal
> perception", along with "superadditive effects"
>
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 17 August 2017 20:17:37
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> Dont forget "interactive" and "gesture based" Phi....
>
> On 17 August 2017 at 19:06, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning
> > on being an academic?
> >
> > Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book
> > definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be
> > it sonic arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc.
> > etc.) forget all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and
> > like it or not you will always be distracted by having to pander to
> > either academic or 'art world' gatekeepers. All these silly little
> > boxes people want to put things in are a distraction. Focus on what
> > you want to say artistically, what you want to express, don't get
> > wrapped up in trying to make it fit within a preexisting frame.
> >
> > Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied"
> > in there somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive
> > experience" is sexy now too, money being thrown at that
> > <http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/
> > research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next-
> > generation-of-immersive-experiences/>
> > .
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal ,
> > > I don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem
> > > is exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research.
> > > In that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought
> > > rather than just propose some problems for future research. I'm
> > > afraid that will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a
> > > decent proposal
> really confuse me.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > > time,
> > I
> > > used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > > electronic
> > music
> > > style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The
> > purpose
> > > is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite
> > > potential sources and it is also the future of music, that's why
> > > I'm not rejected
> > to
> > > use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is
> > > quite different from traditional music. Composers , always are
> > > audio engineer
> > as
> > > well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> > > psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly.
> > > Besides, combine club electronic means extract some approaches or
> > > ideas from it,
> > and
> > > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many
> > > people have tried to find a more humanization way to present those
> > > art works, combination is one of a choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> artists.
> > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept
> > > the world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep
> > > using every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those
> > > principles to create sth special, that would be interesting and
> > > innovation. But indeed, sound always provided informations that
> > > visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting point to be research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > through each
> > other,
> > > to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good
> > > example of audio altering visual perception.
> > >
> > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the
> > > other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of
> > > cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to
> > > dominate in particular instances.
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > >
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > >
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > >
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > >
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to
> > > do
> > with a
> > > football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the
> > > way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being
> > > a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a
> > > sound artist ? What
> > like
> > > a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up
> > > button
> > pusher
> > > with delusions of grandeur........
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make,
> > > > on the
> > > side
> > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > audio
> > > ones.
> > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > audio
> > perceptions
> > > > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > override
> > > audio
> > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > like to
> > > play
> > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions
> > > > > with
> > sound
> > > -
> > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation
> > > > > of
> > > cognitive
> > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location
> > > > > and how
> > it
> > > > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice
> > > > > of
> > sounds,
> > > > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a
> > > > > speaker, to
> > > the
> > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > listeners
> > > > and
> > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > > are
> > > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > experience
> > > > the
> > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something
> > > > > more
> > > important
> > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can
> > > > > completely
> > > override
> > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > their
> > use.
> > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > project
> > > -
> > > > I
> > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but
> > > > > dont
> > > actually
> > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would
> > > > > say do it
> > > the
> > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > > this
> > > topic -
> > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > > you
> > put
> > > a
> > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > straight
> > > > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > > > determining
> > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > > can you
> > > get
> > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > .....I
> > > am
> > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way
> > > > > you mean
> > -
> > > I
> > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > technology
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a
> > > > > lot of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > psychoacoustic
> > and
> > > > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and
> > > > > precedence
> > > > etc) .
> > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in
> > > > > sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be
> > > > > wary of terms
> > > like
> > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I
> > > > > understand the importance of academic writing style you have
> > > > > the potential to write
> > an
> > > > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio
> > > > > which
> > > actually
> > > > is
> > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > esoteric
> > > > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not
> > > > > let
> > > yourself
> > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > that
> > > makes
> > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > really
> > > > engaged.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox
> > > > > <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of
> > > > > > music partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > > psychological) that
> > exist
> > > > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle
> > > > > > be
> > applied
> > > > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > principle
> > > > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan,
> > McCarthy
> > > > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and
> > > > > > Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare
> > > > > > "flight of the
> > bumble
> > > > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on
> > > > > > Romeo and
> > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and
> > > > > > the sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > interested
> > > in
> > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line
> > > > > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > much
> > is
> > > > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this
> > > > > > stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work.
> > > > > > Simplicity is
> > the
> > > > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you
> > > > > > want
> > to
> > > > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all
> > > > > > their
> > > > lives.
> > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts, Humanities
> > > > > > and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > ??
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > designated
> > > > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of
> > > > > > the
> > outer
> > > > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based
> > > > > > music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical
> > > > > > information. How to
> > use
> > > > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it
> > > > > > could arouse people's association and extra-musical
> > > > > > experiences? And, How
> > > to
> > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used
> > > > > > and
> > worked
> > > > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break
> > > > > > the typical
> > perception
> > > > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> > > principles?
> > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition
> > > > > > process (understanding through thought, experience, and
> > > > > > existing knowledge,
> > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound
> > with
> > > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would
> > > > > > be act
> > > like
> > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > experiences
> > to
> > > > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily.
> > > > > > Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings or
> > > > > > interact with
> > > artworks
> > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > cognitive
> > > > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based
> > > > > > artwork with other forms of art, will innovations happen by
> > > > > > this
> > combination?
> > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > audiences,
> > so
> > > > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural
> > > > > > world presented to us: when we come into a place, we will
> > > > > > hear and see
> > the
> > > > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so
> > > > > > as
> > "sound
> > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > > to
> > form
> > > a
> > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > > manipulate
> > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then
> > > > > > extract the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > Yilin
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > >
> > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > Dave Malham
> > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > > YO10 5DD UK
> > > >
> > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-18 10:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Loving your output here Peter I think part of the problem is when they
incorporated the arts into universities they tried to impose the same
methodologies from sciences and humanities . I wonder how mathematicians
get round the limitations of human language for PhDs of course our society
respects them more than artists so the are probably cut lot more slack.
Arts funding often funds those with academic qualifications so.... Thus the
gallery connection and plethora of shallow conceptual crap. OK enough of my
hypocrasy. Anyway There's a controller that has an airpad combined with the
leap - combined with the hololense is I interesting. Personally I think
integrated reality is the way forward and I'm working hard on making it a
new buzzword.

On Friday, 18 August 2017, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> That's interesting - often idly wondered how to do that (these academics,
> eh?) - I don't know if sufficient control is feasible, but you might be
> able to modulate the output of the airjets with discernible frequencies
> (prob. up to 2K, but could be higher)?
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;>
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu <javascript:;>] On
> Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
> Sent: 18 August 2017 11:03
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu <javascript:;>>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> funny Peter - I am just working on interactive spatialisation tool that
> incorporates haptic feedback to manipulate sounds in 3D space as well, you
> use your hands to place and manipulate sounds in 3D space - but there are
> sensors that allow you to feel the sounds as well - using tiny air jets
>
> On 18 August 2017 at 10:57, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > I'm just publishing a paper - well, writing it - on multimodal spatial
> > music. (and "immersive" crops up a lot in subjects' comments)
> >
> > Also, see: Nanayakkara, S. C. Enhancing Musical Experience for the
> > Hearing-impaired using Visual and Haptic Feedback.
> > Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering, National University
> > of Singapore. PhD Thesis. 2006
> >
> > The point being that, whilst multimodal techniques may produce useful
> > assistive technologies, we found that they can also be enjoyed by
> > those without hearing impairment. The trick is to rethink what the
> > constraints on composition actually are, if it's a new type of
> experience.
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;>
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu <javascript:;>] On
> Behalf Of ??
> > Sent: 18 August 2017 06:17
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu
> <javascript:;>>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > Well, on compositional area, including audiovisual music composition,
> > it still quite hard to create sth like "immersive experiences" or
> > "multimodal perception". However, imaginary experiences may created
> > if appropriate sound sources and composing techniques has been referred.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;>>;
> > Date: Fri, Aug 18, 2017 03:20 AM
> > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu
> <javascript:;>>;
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> >
> >
> > ...and "extended mind", and "augmented perception", and "multimodal
> > perception", along with "superadditive effects"
> >
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> >
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> >
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> >
> > School of Arts
> >
> >
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;><mailto:***@derby.ac.uk
> <javascript:;>>
> >
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> >
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> >
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu <javascript:;>> on behalf
> of Augustine
> > Leudar <***@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > Sent: 17 August 2017 20:17:37
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > Dont forget "interactive" and "gesture based" Phi....
> >
> > On 17 August 2017 at 19:06, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning
> > > on being an academic?
> > >
> > > Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book
> > > definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be
> > > it sonic arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc.
> > > etc.) forget all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and
> > > like it or not you will always be distracted by having to pander to
> > > either academic or 'art world' gatekeepers. All these silly little
> > > boxes people want to put things in are a distraction. Focus on what
> > > you want to say artistically, what you want to express, don't get
> > > wrapped up in trying to make it fit within a preexisting frame.
> > >
> > > Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied"
> > > in there somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive
> > > experience" is sexy now too, money being thrown at that
> > > <http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/
> > > research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next-
> > > generation-of-immersive-experiences/>
> > > .
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <***@qq.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to
> say:
> > > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal ,
> > > > I don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem
> > > > is exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research.
> > > > In that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought
> > > > rather than just propose some problems for future research. I'm
> > > > afraid that will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a
> > > > decent proposal
> > really confuse me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > > > time,
> > > I
> > > > used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > > > electronic
> > > music
> > > > style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The
> > > purpose
> > > > is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite
> > > > potential sources and it is also the future of music, that's why
> > > > I'm not rejected
> > > to
> > > > use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is
> > > > quite different from traditional music. Composers , always are
> > > > audio engineer
> > > as
> > > > well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> > > > psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly.
> > > > Besides, combine club electronic means extract some approaches or
> > > > ideas from it,
> > > and
> > > > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many
> > > > people have tried to find a more humanization way to present those
> > > > art works, combination is one of a choice.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> > artists.
> > > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept
> > > > the world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep
> > > > using every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those
> > > > principles to create sth special, that would be interesting and
> > > > innovation. But indeed, sound always provided informations that
> > > > visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting point to be
> research.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;>>;
> > > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu
> <javascript:;>>;
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > > through each
> > > other,
> > > > to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good
> > > > example of audio altering visual perception.
> > > >
> > > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the
> > > > other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of
> > > > cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to
> > > > dominate in particular instances.
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > >
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > >
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > >
> > > > School of Arts
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;><mailto:***@derby.ac.uk
> <javascript:;>>
> > > >
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > >
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu <javascript:;>> on
> behalf of
> > > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to
> > > > do
> > > with a
> > > > football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the
> > > > way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being
> > > > a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a
> > > > sound artist ? What
> > > like
> > > > a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up
> > > > button
> > > pusher
> > > > with delusions of grandeur........
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make,
> > > > > on the
> > > > side
> > > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > > audio
> > > > ones.
> > > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > > audio
> > > perceptions
> > > > > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;>
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu
> <javascript:;>] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu
> <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > > override
> > > > audio
> > > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > > like to
> > > > play
> > > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions
> > > > > > with
> > > sound
> > > > -
> > > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation
> > > > > > of
> > > > cognitive
> > > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location
> > > > > > and how
> > > it
> > > > > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice
> > > > > > of
> > > sounds,
> > > > > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a
> > > > > > speaker, to
> > > > the
> > > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > listeners
> > > > > and
> > > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > > > are
> > > > trying
> > > > > to
> > > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > experience
> > > > > the
> > > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something
> > > > > > more
> > > > important
> > > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can
> > > > > > completely
> > > > override
> > > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > > their
> > > use.
> > > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > project
> > > > -
> > > > > I
> > > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but
> > > > > > dont
> > > > actually
> > > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would
> > > > > > say do it
> > > > the
> > > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > > > this
> > > > topic -
> > > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in
> VR.
> > > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > > > you
> > > put
> > > > a
> > > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > straight
> > > > > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > > > > determining
> > > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > > > can you
> > > > get
> > > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > .....I
> > > > am
> > > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way
> > > > > > you mean
> > > -
> > > > I
> > > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > > technology
> > > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a
> > > > > > lot of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > > psychoacoustic
> > > and
> > > > > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and
> > > > > > precedence
> > > > > etc) .
> > > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in
> > > > > > sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be
> > > > > > wary of terms
> > > > like
> > > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I
> > > > > > understand the importance of academic writing style you have
> > > > > > the potential to write
> > > an
> > > > > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio
> > > > > > which
> > > > actually
> > > > > is
> > > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > esoteric
> > > > > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not
> > > > > > let
> > > > yourself
> > > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > > that
> > > > makes
> > > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > > really
> > > > > engaged.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox
> > > > > > <***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to
> interfere.
> > > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of
> > > > > > > music partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > > > psychological) that
> > > exist
> > > > > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle
> > > > > > > be
> > > applied
> > > > > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > principle
> > > > > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan,
> > > McCarthy
> > > > > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and
> > > > > > > Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare
> > > > > > > "flight of the
> > > bumble
> > > > > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on
> > > > > > > Romeo and
> > > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and
> > > > > > > the sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing
> masses.
> > > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > > interested
> > > > in
> > > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line
> > > > > > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > > much
> > > is
> > > > > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this
> > > > > > > stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work.
> > > > > > > Simplicity is
> > > the
> > > > > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you
> > > > > > > want
> > > to
> > > > > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > lives.
> > > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts, Humanities
> > > > > > > and Education School of Arts
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk <javascript:;>
> > > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu
> <javascript:;>] On
> > > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > > ??
> > > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu <javascript:;>>
> > > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > designated
> > > > > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of
> > > > > > > the
> > > outer
> > > > > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based
> > > > > > > music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical
> > > > > > > information. How to
> > > use
> > > > > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it
> > > > > > > could arouse people's association and extra-musical
> > > > > > > experiences? And, How
> > > > to
> > > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > > interesting
> > > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used
> > > > > > > and
> > > worked
> > > > > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break
> > > > > > > the typical
> > > perception
> > > > > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> > > > principles?
> > > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition
> > > > > > > process (understanding through thought, experience, and
> > > > > > > existing knowledge,
> > > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound
> > > with
> > > > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would
> > > > > > > be act
> > > > like
> > > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > > experiences
> > > to
> > > > > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily.
> > > > > > > Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings or
> > > > > > > interact with
> > > > artworks
> > > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > cognitive
> > > > > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based
> > > > > > > artwork with other forms of art, will innovations happen by
> > > > > > > this
> > > combination?
> > > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > > audiences,
> > > so
> > > > > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural
> > > > > > > world presented to us: when we come into a place, we will
> > > > > > > hear and see
> > > the
> > > > > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so
> > > > > > > as
> > > "sound
> > > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > > > to
> > > form
> > > > a
> > > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > > > manipulate
> > > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then
> > > > > > > extract the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > > Yilin
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> > > > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > > >
> > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > > University
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Malham
> > > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
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> > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > --
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> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
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> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
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David Pickett
2017-08-18 05:42:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
At 20:06 17-08-17, Phi Shu wrote:

>Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on being
>an academic?

It is a relatively recent requirement of academics that they hold a
PhD before being allowed into the profession. In my own case, I
elected to do a PhD in order to be able to answer the questions I had
about the subject material in a disciplined and rigorous manner. I
realised from the start that, were I not to have employed the
framework of a PhD, I should never have achieved anything. That said,
the structure of my work and the thesis owed little to any previous
models. Acquiring a PhD in a slightly different field from that in
which I was engaged as an academic had absolutely no effect on my
career development.

It never ceases to amaze me how many PhD candidates have NO idea what
they want to research before they register for the degree. Given that
the thesis is at the heart of it all (and in my case was the only
requirement for award of the degree), this is amazing. These are the
candidates who want a PhD solely because they want to enter the
academy and, since they often seem to have no independent ideas in
their heads, I wonder whether they should be allowed in.

David
Phi Shu
2017-08-19 23:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
>
> aren't we already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality, Donal
> Trump is president the USA ffs.


that's Baud*r*illarian, certainly not Baudelairian, and Donal Trump isn't
the US president, it's some other guy with bad hair....

So - the only reasons I can think of to study at PhD level are personal
> ones: the knowledge (and possibly even a glimmer of wisdom) itself - the
> joy of discovering something new, the conviction that one didn't simply
> mark time through life.


I would agree, but only if it's not at one's own financial expense ; )

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 6:42 AM, David Pickett <***@fugato.com> wrote:

> At 20:06 17-08-17, Phi Shu wrote:
>
> >Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on
> being
> >an academic?
>
> It is a relatively recent requirement of academics that they hold a PhD
> before being allowed into the profession. In my own case, I elected to do a
> PhD in order to be able to answer the questions I had about the subject
> material in a disciplined and rigorous manner. I realised from the start
> that, were I not to have employed the framework of a PhD, I should never
> have achieved anything. That said, the structure of my work and the thesis
> owed little to any previous models. Acquiring a PhD in a slightly different
> field from that in which I was engaged as an academic had absolutely no
> effect on my career development.
>
> It never ceases to amaze me how many PhD candidates have NO idea what they
> want to research before they register for the degree. Given that the thesis
> is at the heart of it all (and in my case was the only requirement for
> award of the degree), this is amazing. These are the candidates who want a
> PhD solely because they want to enter the academy and, since they often
> seem to have no independent ideas in their heads, I wonder whether they
> should be allowed in.
>
> David
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-17 20:52:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you might
want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics described academia as
a cancer for creativity :

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-debate-110409.html

I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever their
now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based on research
questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields but not really for
art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If art and music seeks to
express something that can't be expressed verbally - how can you base such
activity on verbal research questions with out turning art into something
dead and pretentious and utterly limited by verbal thought processes. The
solution in the arts seems to have been to make those verbal though
processes ridiculously convoluted as possible . Have fun with that one
anyway and good luck.

On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:

> Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I don't
> know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is exactly what
> Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In that case, the
> objects... is more like a train of thought rather than just propose some
> problems for future research. I'm afraid that will limit the creation as
> well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.
>
>
> About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first time, I
> used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic music
> style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The purpose
> is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite potential
> sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm not rejected to
> use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is quite
> different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio engineer as
> well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn
> psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides,
> combine club electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and
> with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people have
> tried to find a more humanization way to present those art works,
> combination is one of a choice.
>
>
> About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one dominate
> another. What I referred here is human always percept the world with all
> senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every senses which is
> intuitive. If artists use those principles to create sth special, that
> would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, sound always provided
> informations that visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting
> point to be research.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
> From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
>
>
> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each other,
> to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of
> audio altering visual perception.
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since
> the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with
> the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular
> instances.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do with a
> football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the
> ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist
> sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like
> a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher
> with delusions of grandeur........
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the
> side
> > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio
> ones.
> > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio perceptions
> > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Wot he said...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override
> audio
> > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to
> play
> > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with sound
> -
> > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> cognitive
> > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how it
> > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of sounds,
> > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to
> the
> > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for listeners
> > and
> > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> trying
> > to
> > > transport them to is..
> > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and experience
> > the
> > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> important
> > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> override
> > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of project
> -
> > I
> > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> actually
> > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it
> the
> > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> topic -
> > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you put
> a
> > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a straight
> > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is
> > determining
> > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you
> get
> > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". .....I
> am
> > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean -
> I
> > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology
> to
> > be
> > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of
> > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic and
> > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence
> > etc) .
> > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms
> like
> > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the
> > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write an
> > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which
> actually
> > is
> > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary esoteric
> > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let
> yourself
> > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that
> makes
> > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > engaged.
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You
> > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly
> > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that exist
> > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be applied
> > > > to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the principle
> > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy
> > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of
> > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the bumble
> > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations
> > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement
> > > > (acceleration, change of
> > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested
> in
> > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > >
> > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much is
> > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of
> > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is the
> > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want to
> > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > lives.
> > > > Good luck!
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> ??
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically designated
> > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the outer
> > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music,
> > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to use
> > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could
> > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> to
> > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting
> > > perception experiences?
> > > >
> > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and worked
> > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based
> > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical perception
> > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception
> principles?
> > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge,
> > > etc.).
> > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual
> > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates
> > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic
> > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> like
> > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences to
> > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus,
> > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with
> artworks
> > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and cognitive
> > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork
> > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, so
> > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world
> > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see the
> > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to form
> a
> > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> manipulate
> > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the
> > > > result to form a final dissertation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > Yilin
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> > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > > sender and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
> > > -------------- next part --------------
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> here,
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> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender
> > > and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
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> here,
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> >
> > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University
> >
> > Dave Malham
> > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music
> > The University of York
> > York YO10 5DD
> > UK
> >
> > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-18 10:07:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"

A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position where "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken seriously. So even if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity, one has to be able to discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't know if anyone ever did a PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that would be a challenge to get past the research degrees committee!

And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in Art Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by those automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/ , http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ; https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )

Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you might want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics described academia as a cancer for creativity :

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-debate-110409.html

I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever their now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based on research questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields but not really for art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If art and music seeks to express something that can't be expressed verbally - how can you base such activity on verbal research questions with out turning art into something dead and pretentious and utterly limited by verbal thought processes. The solution in the arts seems to have been to make those verbal though processes ridiculously convoluted as possible . Have fun with that one anyway and good luck.

On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:

> Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I
> don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is
> exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In
> that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather than
> just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that will
> limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me.
>
>
> About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment music
> and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value.
> Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of music,
> that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For composition, as
> sound and electronic music is quite different from traditional music.
> Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study sound
> composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that we will
> know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club electronic means
> extract some approaches or ideas from it, and with principles, those
> sound works will be more humanization and interesting rather than
> serious all the time. There are many people have tried to find a more
> humanization way to present those art works, combination is one of a choice.
>
>
> About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the
> world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every
> senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to create
> sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But indeed,
> sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot present.
> That's also a interesting point to be research.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
> From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
>
>
> The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each
> other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good
> example of audio altering visual perception.
>
> it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other,
> since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the
> sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in
> particular instances.
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
>
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
>
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
>
> School of Arts
>
>
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
>
> t: 01332 593155
>
>
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
>
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> To: Surround Sound discussion group
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see
> the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being
> a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a
> sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ?
> ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
>
> On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on
> > the
> side
> > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > audio
> ones.
> > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio
> > perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Wot he said...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > override
> audio
> > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like
> > > to
> play
> > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> > > sound
> -
> > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> cognitive
> > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and
> > > how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the
> > > choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the
> > > sight of a speaker, to
> the
> > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > listeners
> > and
> > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> trying
> > to
> > > transport them to is..
> > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > experience
> > the
> > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> important
> > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> override
> > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their use.
> > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > project
> -
> > I
> > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> actually
> > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do
> > > it
> the
> > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> topic -
> > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you
> > > put
> a
> > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > research is
> > determining
> > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can
> > > you
> get
> > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > .....I
> am
> > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you
> > > mean -
> I
> > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > technology
> to
> > be
> > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot
> > > of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail party
> > > effect and precedence
> > etc) .
> > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of
> > > terms
> like
> > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand
> > > the importance of academic writing style you have the potential to
> > > write an interesting research project and create a great portfolio
> > > which
> actually
> > is
> > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion and
> > > not let
> yourself
> > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > that
> makes
> > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > engaged.
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music
> > > > partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological)
> > > > that exist for other than musical reasons - so how can this
> > > > principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in
> > > > Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy
> > > > and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare
> > > > "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the
> > > > Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the
> > > > sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > Debussey)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > interested
> in
> > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > >
> > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that all
> > > > academics wrestle with, all their
> > lives.
> > > > Good luck!
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf
> > > > Of
> ??
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> > > > outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical
> > > > information. How to use that information appropriately to create
> > > > artwork so that it could arouse people's association and
> > > > extra-musical experiences? And, How
> to
> > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > interesting
> > > perception experiences?
> > > >
> > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> > > > worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the
> > > > typical perception habit or used it to create artwork according
> > > > to perception
> principles?
> > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing
> > > > knowledge,
> > > etc.).
> > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition process,
> > > > will it creates fantastic artwork that brings abundant
> > > > information even dramatic experiences? For example, using
> > > > symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning, and
> > > > composed them appropriately, it would be act
> like
> > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings
> > > > or interact with
> artworks
> > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this combination?
> > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the
> > > > natural world presented to us: when we come into a place, we
> > > > will hear and see the surroundings and then understand what has
> > > > happened here, so as "sound
> > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to
> > > > form
> a
> > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> manipulate
> > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract
> > > > the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > Yilin
> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
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> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email
> > > > and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > the sender and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Sursound mailing list
> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
> > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> > >
> > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> sender
> > > and let them know.
> > >
> > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Sursound mailing list
> > > ***@music.vt.edu
> > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
> here,
> > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> >
> > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > University
> >
> > Dave Malham
> > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > YO10 5DD UK
> >
> > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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>
>
> The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Phi Shu
2017-08-18 12:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
true that International Art English
<https://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/contents/international_art_english>
(IAE) is problematic, at the same time there is an awful lot of
sound/music/whatever based work that suffers from over dependence on
spectacle and technical contrivance, a lot it is really banal, it has
nothing to say about anything really (beyond: "isn't this a really
interesting sound" - and often it's not).

speaking as someone who jumped through the practice based PhD loop, I hated
the writing, but a PhD without some form of
intellectual/philosophical/conceptual narrative is simply not a PhD in my
opinion, it shouldn't be awarded. A portfolio featuring a selection of
random, disparate, creative works is not a PhD; equally one should not need
a PhD to convince gatekeepers that one is qualified to produce interesting
and engaging art; or that art bereft of anything interesting and engaging
is somehow acceptable because the person who produced it has a PhD. Sure,
what with the horrible funding climate and aggressive neoliberal politics
we are dealing with, I can see why so many professional artists are now
looking to retreat to academia, but is that a good reason to do a PhD? and
down the line where are all the teaching hours going to come from? Then
there's the practice led research versus research led practice debate,
which is more valid in the context of doing a PhD? Arguably the latter.

As for the creation of "immersive" experiences, do we need them? aren't we
already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality, Donal Trump is
president the USA ffs. A recent provocation
<http://sonicfield.org/2017/08/against-immersion/> sums this up.

Oh, also, Michael Edwards on "Why I am leaving UK academia
<https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/uk-academia-has-gone-hell-handcart-and-i-quit>"
should be required reading for anyone thinking of being an artist/composer
based in academia. Which reminds me, I was at an event a few years back,
where a well know UK academic composer - who was about to retire - gave a
talk in which he advised against doing a PhD if composition is something
one wishes to make a future out of it - because the working environment has
become that horrible.

If you want job security, become an administrator.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"
>
> A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position where
> "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken seriously. So even
> if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity, one has to be able to
> discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't know if anyone ever did a
> PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that would be a challenge to get past
> the research degrees committee!
>
> And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in Art
> Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by those
> automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/ ,
> http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ;
> https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )
>
> Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> Augustine Leudar
> Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you might
> want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics described academia as
> a cancer for creativity :
>
> http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-
> debate-110409.html
>
> I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever their
> now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based on research
> questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields but not really for
> art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If art and music seeks to
> express something that can't be expressed verbally - how can you base such
> activity on verbal research questions with out turning art into something
> dead and pretentious and utterly limited by verbal thought processes. The
> solution in the arts seems to have been to make those verbal though
> processes ridiculously convoluted as possible . Have fun with that one
> anyway and good luck.
>
> On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I
> > don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is
> > exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In
> > that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather than
> > just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that will
> > limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really
> confuse me.
> >
> >
> > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment music
> > and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value.
> > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of music,
> > that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For composition, as
> > sound and electronic music is quite different from traditional music.
> > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study sound
> > composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that we will
> > know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club electronic means
> > extract some approaches or ideas from it, and with principles, those
> > sound works will be more humanization and interesting rather than
> > serious all the time. There are many people have tried to find a more
> > humanization way to present those art works, combination is one of a
> choice.
> >
> >
> > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the
> > world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every
> > senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to create
> > sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But indeed,
> > sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot present.
> > That's also a interesting point to be research.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> >
> >
> > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> > alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each
> > other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good
> > example of audio altering visual perception.
> >
> > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other,
> > since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the
> > sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in
> > particular instances.
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> >
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> >
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> >
> > School of Arts
> >
> >
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> >
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> >
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> >
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> > Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> > with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see
> > the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being
> > a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a
> > sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ?
> > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on
> > > the
> > side
> > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > audio
> > ones.
> > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio
> > > perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with
> your phd.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wot he said...
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > Augustine Leudar
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > override
> > audio
> > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like
> > > > to
> > play
> > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> > > > sound
> > -
> > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > cognitive
> > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and
> > > > how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the
> > > > choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the
> > > > sight of a speaker, to
> > the
> > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > listeners
> > > and
> > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> > trying
> > > to
> > > > transport them to is..
> > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > experience
> > > the
> > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > important
> > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > override
> > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their
> use.
> > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > > project
> > -
> > > I
> > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > actually
> > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do
> > > > it
> > the
> > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> > topic -
> > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you
> > > > put
> > a
> > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > research is
> > > determining
> > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can
> > > > you
> > get
> > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > > .....I
> > am
> > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you
> > > > mean -
> > I
> > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > technology
> > to
> > > be
> > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot
> > > > of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail party
> > > > effect and precedence
> > > etc) .
> > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of
> > > > terms
> > like
> > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand
> > > > the importance of academic writing style you have the potential to
> > > > write an interesting research project and create a great portfolio
> > > > which
> > actually
> > > is
> > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion and
> > > > not let
> > yourself
> > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > that
> > makes
> > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > > engaged.
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music
> > > > > partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological)
> > > > > that exist for other than musical reasons - so how can this
> > > > > principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in
> > > > > Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy
> > > > > and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare
> > > > > "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the
> > > > > Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the
> > > > > sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > Debussey)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > interested
> > in
> > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that all
> > > > > academics wrestle with, all their
> > > lives.
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf
> > > > > Of
> > ??
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> > > > > outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical
> > > > > information. How to use that information appropriately to create
> > > > > artwork so that it could arouse people's association and
> > > > > extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > to
> > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > interesting
> > > > perception experiences?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> > > > > worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the
> > > > > typical perception habit or used it to create artwork according
> > > > > to perception
> > principles?
> > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing
> > > > > knowledge,
> > > > etc.).
> > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition process,
> > > > > will it creates fantastic artwork that brings abundant
> > > > > information even dramatic experiences? For example, using
> > > > > symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning, and
> > > > > composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > like
> > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings
> > > > > or interact with
> > artworks
> > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations
> happen by this combination?
> > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the
> > > > > natural world presented to us: when we come into a place, we
> > > > > will hear and see the surroundings and then understand what has
> > > > > happened here, so as "sound
> > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to
> > > > > form
> > a
> > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > manipulate
> > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract
> > > > > the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > Yilin
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> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > > Belfast BT88LL
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> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
> > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > sender
> > > > and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > here,
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > >
> > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > University
> > >
> > > Dave Malham
> > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > YO10 5DD UK
> > >
> > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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> >
> >
> > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
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> >
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>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-18 12:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Yes - academia generally is in a strange place. - I used to love it - I remember being asked by someone I know why I worked for that kind of money (he claimed more for transport against his tax bill than I grossed) - I said "because I get paid to think" - he said fair enough, I get that.
But now, any thinking is strictly on my own time.
The problem is something like this: - the original reason for something coming into existence is rarely identical to the reason for continuing to exist.

So, The word "university" is derived from the Latin universitas magistrorum et scholarium, which roughly means "community of teachers and scholars." (Wikipedia) - but in fact, scholarship is now quite difficult to find the time and energy for, teaching is defined by the measurement methods (to the exclusion of all else) and community happens once a year at a conference.
In fact, there are so many competing vested interests ("stakeholders") that the business (extremely big business) has become 'weaponised'
In the midst of all this, the footsoldiers in the trenches have little influence on what universities should be doing, what academia is for. And when did we last hear the word "wisdom"?

So - the only reasons I can think of to study at PhD level are personal ones: the knowledge (and possibly even a glimmer of wisdom) itself - the joy of discovering something new, the conviction that one didn't simply mark time through life.
I would NOT advocate PhD level study as some passport to something else (as with any academic qualification, actually - only matters if you haven't got it, but doesn't guarantee anything whatsoever).
In other words, it's perhaps handy to think of a PhD as essentially an amateur (as in 'for the love of..') thing. As such, the whole thing, from proposal to methodology to types of conclusion, should, first and foremost, please oneself. If others happen to like it, that's a bonus.
Cheers
ppl

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Phi Shu
Sent: 18 August 2017 13:02
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

true that International Art English
<https://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/contents/international_art_english>
(IAE) is problematic, at the same time there is an awful lot of sound/music/whatever based work that suffers from over dependence on spectacle and technical contrivance, a lot it is really banal, it has nothing to say about anything really (beyond: "isn't this a really interesting sound" - and often it's not).

speaking as someone who jumped through the practice based PhD loop, I hated the writing, but a PhD without some form of intellectual/philosophical/conceptual narrative is simply not a PhD in my opinion, it shouldn't be awarded. A portfolio featuring a selection of random, disparate, creative works is not a PhD; equally one should not need a PhD to convince gatekeepers that one is qualified to produce interesting and engaging art; or that art bereft of anything interesting and engaging is somehow acceptable because the person who produced it has a PhD. Sure, what with the horrible funding climate and aggressive neoliberal politics we are dealing with, I can see why so many professional artists are now looking to retreat to academia, but is that a good reason to do a PhD? and down the line where are all the teaching hours going to come from? Then there's the practice led research versus research led practice debate, which is more valid in the context of doing a PhD? Arguably the latter.

As for the creation of "immersive" experiences, do we need them? aren't we already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality, Donal Trump is president the USA ffs. A recent provocation <http://sonicfield.org/2017/08/against-immersion/> sums this up.

Oh, also, Michael Edwards on "Why I am leaving UK academia <https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/uk-academia-has-gone-hell-handcart-and-i-quit>"
should be required reading for anyone thinking of being an artist/composer based in academia. Which reminds me, I was at an event a few years back, where a well know UK academic composer - who was about to retire - gave a talk in which he advised against doing a PhD if composition is something one wishes to make a future out of it - because the working environment has become that horrible.

If you want job security, become an administrator.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"
>
> A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position
> where "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken
> seriously. So even if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity,
> one has to be able to discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't
> know if anyone ever did a PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that
> would be a challenge to get past the research degrees committee!
>
> And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in
> Art Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by
> those automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/ ,
> http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ;
> https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )
>
> Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> Augustine Leudar
> Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you
> might want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics described
> academia as a cancer for creativity :
>
> http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-
> debate-110409.html
>
> I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever
> their now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based on
> research questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields but
> not really for art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If art
> and music seeks to express something that can't be expressed verbally
> - how can you base such activity on verbal research questions with out
> turning art into something dead and pretentious and utterly limited by
> verbal thought processes. The solution in the arts seems to have been
> to make those verbal though processes ridiculously convoluted as
> possible . Have fun with that one anyway and good luck.
>
> On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I
> > don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is
> > exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In
> > that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather
> > than just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that
> > will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal
> > really
> confuse me.
> >
> >
> > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment music
> > and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value.
> > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of
> > music, that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For
> > composition, as sound and electronic music is quite different from traditional music.
> > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study
> > sound composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that we
> > will know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club
> > electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and with
> > principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people
> > have tried to find a more humanization way to present those art
> > works, combination is one of a
> choice.
> >
> >
> > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists.
> > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the
> > world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using
> > every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to
> > create sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But
> > indeed, sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot present.
> > That's also a interesting point to be research.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> >
> >
> > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each
> > other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.
> >
> > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other,
> > since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the
> > sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in
> > particular instances.
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> >
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> >
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> >
> > School of Arts
> >
> >
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> >
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> >
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> >
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> >
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> > with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see
> > the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks
> > being a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy....
> > What's a sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ?
> > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
> >
> > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on
> > > the
> > side
> > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > audio
> > ones.
> > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > audio perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good
> > > luck with
> your phd.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wot he said...
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf
> > > > Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > override
> > audio
> > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > like to
> > play
> > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> > > > sound
> > -
> > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > cognitive
> > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and
> > > > how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the
> > > > choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the
> > > > sight of a speaker, to
> > the
> > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > listeners
> > > and
> > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > are
> > trying
> > > to
> > > > transport them to is..
> > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > experience
> > > the
> > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > important
> > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > override
> > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > their
> use.
> > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > > project
> > -
> > > I
> > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > actually
> > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say
> > > > do it
> > the
> > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > this
> > topic -
> > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > you put
> > a
> > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > research is
> > > determining
> > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > can you
> > get
> > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > > .....I
> > am
> > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you
> > > > mean -
> > I
> > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > technology
> > to
> > > be
> > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot
> > > > of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail
> > > > party effect and precedence
> > > etc) .
> > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of
> > > > terms
> > like
> > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand
> > > > the importance of academic writing style you have the potential
> > > > to write an interesting research project and create a great
> > > > portfolio which
> > actually
> > > is
> > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion
> > > > and not let
> > yourself
> > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > that
> > makes
> > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > really
> > > engaged.
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music
> > > > > partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > psychological) that exist for other than musical reasons - so
> > > > > how can this principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics',
> > > > > in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the
> > > > > Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) -
> > > > > then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's
> > > > > "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the
> > > > > sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > Debussey)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > interested
> > in
> > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that
> > > > > all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > lives.
> > > > > Good luck!
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > Behalf Of
> > ??
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> > > > > outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have
> > > > > extra-musical information. How to use that information
> > > > > appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse
> > > > > people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > to
> > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > interesting
> > > > perception experiences?
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> > > > > worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the
> > > > > typical perception habit or used it to create artwork
> > > > > according to perception
> > principles?
> > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing
> > > > > knowledge,
> > > > etc.).
> > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning,
> > > > > and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > like
> > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the
> > > > > feelings or interact with
> > artworks
> > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations
> happen by this combination?
> > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like
> > > > > the natural world presented to us: when we come into a place,
> > > > > we will hear and see the surroundings and then understand what
> > > > > has happened here, so as "sound
> > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > to form
> > a
> > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > manipulate
> > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract
> > > > > the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > Yilin
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> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email
> > > > > and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > > the sender and let them know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > unsubscribe here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
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> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > ***@music.vt.edu
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> > > > unsubscribe
> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email
> > > > and reserves the right to monitor email traffic.
> > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > the
> > sender
> > > > and let them know.
> > > >
> > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > here,
> > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > >
> > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > University
> > >
> > > Dave Malham
> > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > YO10 5DD UK
> > >
> > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-18 12:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
very well said Peter. Right enough of this - I'm off to make some sound
based music :)

On 18 August 2017 at 13:47, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> Yes - academia generally is in a strange place. - I used to love it - I
> remember being asked by someone I know why I worked for that kind of money
> (he claimed more for transport against his tax bill than I grossed) - I
> said "because I get paid to think" - he said fair enough, I get that.
> But now, any thinking is strictly on my own time.
> The problem is something like this: - the original reason for something
> coming into existence is rarely identical to the reason for continuing to
> exist.
>
> So, The word "university" is derived from the Latin universitas
> magistrorum et scholarium, which roughly means "community of teachers and
> scholars." (Wikipedia) - but in fact, scholarship is now quite difficult to
> find the time and energy for, teaching is defined by the measurement
> methods (to the exclusion of all else) and community happens once a year at
> a conference.
> In fact, there are so many competing vested interests ("stakeholders")
> that the business (extremely big business) has become 'weaponised'
> In the midst of all this, the footsoldiers in the trenches have little
> influence on what universities should be doing, what academia is for. And
> when did we last hear the word "wisdom"?
>
> So - the only reasons I can think of to study at PhD level are personal
> ones: the knowledge (and possibly even a glimmer of wisdom) itself - the
> joy of discovering something new, the conviction that one didn't simply
> mark time through life.
> I would NOT advocate PhD level study as some passport to something else
> (as with any academic qualification, actually - only matters if you haven't
> got it, but doesn't guarantee anything whatsoever).
> In other words, it's perhaps handy to think of a PhD as essentially an
> amateur (as in 'for the love of..') thing. As such, the whole thing, from
> proposal to methodology to types of conclusion, should, first and foremost,
> please oneself. If others happen to like it, that's a bonus.
> Cheers
> ppl
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Phi Shu
> Sent: 18 August 2017 13:02
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> true that International Art English
> <https://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/contents/international_art_english>
> (IAE) is problematic, at the same time there is an awful lot of
> sound/music/whatever based work that suffers from over dependence on
> spectacle and technical contrivance, a lot it is really banal, it has
> nothing to say about anything really (beyond: "isn't this a really
> interesting sound" - and often it's not).
>
> speaking as someone who jumped through the practice based PhD loop, I
> hated the writing, but a PhD without some form of
> intellectual/philosophical/conceptual narrative is simply not a PhD in my
> opinion, it shouldn't be awarded. A portfolio featuring a selection of
> random, disparate, creative works is not a PhD; equally one should not need
> a PhD to convince gatekeepers that one is qualified to produce interesting
> and engaging art; or that art bereft of anything interesting and engaging
> is somehow acceptable because the person who produced it has a PhD. Sure,
> what with the horrible funding climate and aggressive neoliberal politics
> we are dealing with, I can see why so many professional artists are now
> looking to retreat to academia, but is that a good reason to do a PhD? and
> down the line where are all the teaching hours going to come from? Then
> there's the practice led research versus research led practice debate,
> which is more valid in the context of doing a PhD? Arguably the latter.
>
> As for the creation of "immersive" experiences, do we need them? aren't we
> already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality, Donal Trump is
> president the USA ffs. A recent provocation <http://sonicfield.org/2017/
> 08/against-immersion/> sums this up.
>
> Oh, also, Michael Edwards on "Why I am leaving UK academia <https://www.
> timeshighereducation.com/blog/uk-academia-has-gone-hell-
> handcart-and-i-quit>"
> should be required reading for anyone thinking of being an artist/composer
> based in academia. Which reminds me, I was at an event a few years back,
> where a well know UK academic composer - who was about to retire - gave a
> talk in which he advised against doing a PhD if composition is something
> one wishes to make a future out of it - because the working environment has
> become that horrible.
>
> If you want job security, become an administrator.
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"
> >
> > A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position
> > where "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken
> > seriously. So even if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity,
> > one has to be able to discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't
> > know if anyone ever did a PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that
> > would be a challenge to get past the research degrees committee!
> >
> > And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in
> > Art Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by
> > those automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/ ,
> > http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ;
> > https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )
> >
> > Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you
> > might want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics described
> > academia as a cancer for creativity :
> >
> > http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-
> > debate-110409.html
> >
> > I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever
> > their now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based on
> > research questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields but
> > not really for art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If art
> > and music seeks to express something that can't be expressed verbally
> > - how can you base such activity on verbal research questions with out
> > turning art into something dead and pretentious and utterly limited by
> > verbal thought processes. The solution in the arts seems to have been
> > to make those verbal though processes ridiculously convoluted as
> > possible . Have fun with that one anyway and good luck.
> >
> > On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I
> > > don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is
> > > exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In
> > > that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather
> > > than just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that
> > > will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal
> > > really
> > confuse me.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > > time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > > electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment music
> > > and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value.
> > > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of
> > > music, that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For
> > > composition, as sound and electronic music is quite different from
> traditional music.
> > > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study
> > > sound composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that we
> > > will know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club
> > > electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and with
> > > principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people
> > > have tried to find a more humanization way to present those art
> > > works, combination is one of a
> > choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> artists.
> > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the
> > > world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using
> > > every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to
> > > create sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But
> > > indeed, sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot
> present.
> > > That's also a interesting point to be research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each
> > > other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.
> > >
> > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other,
> > > since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the
> > > sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in
> > > particular instances.
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > >
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > >
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > >
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > >
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> > > with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see
> > > the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks
> > > being a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy....
> > > What's a sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound
> designer ?
> > > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on
> > > > the
> > > side
> > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > audio
> > > ones.
> > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > audio perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good
> > > > luck with
> > your phd.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf
> > > > > Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > override
> > > audio
> > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > like to
> > > play
> > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> > > > > sound
> > > -
> > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > > cognitive
> > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and
> > > > > how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the
> > > > > choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the
> > > > > sight of a speaker, to
> > > the
> > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > > listeners
> > > > and
> > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > > are
> > > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > > experience
> > > > the
> > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > > important
> > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > > override
> > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > their
> > use.
> > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > > > project
> > > -
> > > > I
> > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > > actually
> > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say
> > > > > do it
> > > the
> > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > > this
> > > topic -
> > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > > you put
> > > a
> > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > > research is
> > > > determining
> > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > > can you
> > > get
> > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > > > .....I
> > > am
> > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you
> > > > > mean -
> > > I
> > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > technology
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot
> > > > > of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail
> > > > > party effect and precedence
> > > > etc) .
> > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of
> > > > > terms
> > > like
> > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand
> > > > > the importance of academic writing style you have the potential
> > > > > to write an interesting research project and create a great
> > > > > portfolio which
> > > actually
> > > > is
> > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion
> > > > > and not let
> > > yourself
> > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > that
> > > makes
> > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > really
> > > > engaged.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music
> > > > > > partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > > psychological) that exist for other than musical reasons - so
> > > > > > how can this principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics',
> > > > > > in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the
> > > > > > Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) -
> > > > > > then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's
> > > > > > "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the
> > > > > > sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > interested
> > > in
> > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that
> > > > > > all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > > lives.
> > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > ??
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> > > > > > outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have
> > > > > > extra-musical information. How to use that information
> > > > > > appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse
> > > > > > people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > > to
> > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> > > > > > worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the
> > > > > > typical perception habit or used it to create artwork
> > > > > > according to perception
> > > principles?
> > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing
> > > > > > knowledge,
> > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning,
> > > > > > and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > > like
> > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the
> > > > > > feelings or interact with
> > > artworks
> > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations
> > happen by this combination?
> > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like
> > > > > > the natural world presented to us: when we come into a place,
> > > > > > we will hear and see the surroundings and then understand what
> > > > > > has happened here, so as "sound
> > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > > to form
> > > a
> > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > > manipulate
> > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract
> > > > > > the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > Yilin
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to
> > > > > the
> > > sender
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > >
> > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > Dave Malham
> > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > > YO10 5DD UK
> > > >
> > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-18 13:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hang on - we're having an academic discussion here - you can't just charge off and go and actually do something! ;-)

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: 18 August 2017 13:59
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

very well said Peter. Right enough of this - I'm off to make some sound based music :)

On 18 August 2017 at 13:47, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> Yes - academia generally is in a strange place. - I used to love it -
> I remember being asked by someone I know why I worked for that kind of
> money (he claimed more for transport against his tax bill than I
> grossed) - I said "because I get paid to think" - he said fair enough, I get that.
> But now, any thinking is strictly on my own time.
> The problem is something like this: - the original reason for
> something coming into existence is rarely identical to the reason for
> continuing to exist.
>
> So, The word "university" is derived from the Latin universitas
> magistrorum et scholarium, which roughly means "community of teachers
> and scholars." (Wikipedia) - but in fact, scholarship is now quite
> difficult to find the time and energy for, teaching is defined by the
> measurement methods (to the exclusion of all else) and community
> happens once a year at a conference.
> In fact, there are so many competing vested interests ("stakeholders")
> that the business (extremely big business) has become 'weaponised'
> In the midst of all this, the footsoldiers in the trenches have little
> influence on what universities should be doing, what academia is for.
> And when did we last hear the word "wisdom"?
>
> So - the only reasons I can think of to study at PhD level are
> personal
> ones: the knowledge (and possibly even a glimmer of wisdom) itself -
> the joy of discovering something new, the conviction that one didn't
> simply mark time through life.
> I would NOT advocate PhD level study as some passport to something
> else (as with any academic qualification, actually - only matters if
> you haven't got it, but doesn't guarantee anything whatsoever).
> In other words, it's perhaps handy to think of a PhD as essentially an
> amateur (as in 'for the love of..') thing. As such, the whole thing,
> from proposal to methodology to types of conclusion, should, first and
> foremost, please oneself. If others happen to like it, that's a bonus.
> Cheers
> ppl
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Phi
> Shu
> Sent: 18 August 2017 13:02
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> true that International Art English
> <https://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/contents/international_art_english
> >
> (IAE) is problematic, at the same time there is an awful lot of
> sound/music/whatever based work that suffers from over dependence on
> spectacle and technical contrivance, a lot it is really banal, it has
> nothing to say about anything really (beyond: "isn't this a really
> interesting sound" - and often it's not).
>
> speaking as someone who jumped through the practice based PhD loop, I
> hated the writing, but a PhD without some form of
> intellectual/philosophical/conceptual narrative is simply not a PhD in
> my opinion, it shouldn't be awarded. A portfolio featuring a selection
> of random, disparate, creative works is not a PhD; equally one should
> not need a PhD to convince gatekeepers that one is qualified to
> produce interesting and engaging art; or that art bereft of anything
> interesting and engaging is somehow acceptable because the person who
> produced it has a PhD. Sure, what with the horrible funding climate
> and aggressive neoliberal politics we are dealing with, I can see why
> so many professional artists are now looking to retreat to academia,
> but is that a good reason to do a PhD? and down the line where are all
> the teaching hours going to come from? Then there's the practice led
> research versus research led practice debate, which is more valid in the context of doing a PhD? Arguably the latter.
>
> As for the creation of "immersive" experiences, do we need them?
> aren't we already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality, Donal
> Trump is president the USA ffs. A recent provocation
> <http://sonicfield.org/2017/ 08/against-immersion/> sums this up.
>
> Oh, also, Michael Edwards on "Why I am leaving UK academia <https://www.
> timeshighereducation.com/blog/uk-academia-has-gone-hell-
> handcart-and-i-quit>"
> should be required reading for anyone thinking of being an
> artist/composer based in academia. Which reminds me, I was at an event
> a few years back, where a well know UK academic composer - who was
> about to retire - gave a talk in which he advised against doing a PhD
> if composition is something one wishes to make a future out of it -
> because the working environment has become that horrible.
>
> If you want job security, become an administrator.
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"
> >
> > A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position
> > where "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken
> > seriously. So even if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity,
> > one has to be able to discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't
> > know if anyone ever did a PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that
> > would be a challenge to get past the research degrees committee!
> >
> > And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in
> > Art Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by
> > those automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/
> > , http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ;
> > https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )
> >
> > Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you
> > might want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics
> > described academia as a cancer for creativity :
> >
> > http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-
> > debate-110409.html
> >
> > I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever
> > their now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based
> > on research questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields
> > but not really for art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If
> > art and music seeks to express something that can't be expressed
> > verbally
> > - how can you base such activity on verbal research questions with
> > out turning art into something dead and pretentious and utterly
> > limited by verbal thought processes. The solution in the arts seems
> > to have been to make those verbal though processes ridiculously
> > convoluted as possible . Have fun with that one anyway and good luck.
> >
> > On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal ,
> > > I don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem
> > > is exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research.
> > > In that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought
> > > rather than just propose some problems for future research. I'm
> > > afraid that will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a
> > > decent proposal really
> > confuse me.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > > time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > > electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment
> > > music and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value.
> > > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of
> > > music, that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For
> > > composition, as sound and electronic music is quite different from
> traditional music.
> > > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study
> > > sound composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that
> > > we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club
> > > electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and
> > > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many
> > > people have tried to find a more humanization way to present those
> > > art works, combination is one of a
> > choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> artists.
> > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept
> > > the world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep
> > > using every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those
> > > principles to create sth special, that would be interesting and
> > > innovation. But indeed, sound always provided informations that
> > > visual cues cannot
> present.
> > > That's also a interesting point to be research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each
> > > other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.
> > >
> > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the
> > > other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of
> > > cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to
> > > dominate in particular instances.
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > >
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > >
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > >
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > >
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to
> > > do with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you
> > > see the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really
> > > sucks being a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy....
> > > What's a sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound
> designer ?
> > > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make,
> > > > on the
> > > side
> > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > audio
> > > ones.
> > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > audio perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway,
> > > > good luck with
> > your phd.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > override
> > > audio
> > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > like to
> > > play
> > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions
> > > > > with sound
> > > -
> > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation
> > > > > of
> > > cognitive
> > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location
> > > > > and how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as
> > > > > the choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have
> > > > > from the sight of a speaker, to
> > > the
> > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > > listeners
> > > > and
> > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > > are
> > > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > > experience
> > > > the
> > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something
> > > > > more
> > > important
> > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can
> > > > > completely
> > > override
> > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > their
> > use.
> > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > > > project
> > > -
> > > > I
> > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but
> > > > > dont
> > > actually
> > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would
> > > > > say do it
> > > the
> > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > > this
> > > topic -
> > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > > you put
> > > a
> > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > > research is
> > > > determining
> > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > > can you
> > > get
> > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > > > .....I
> > > am
> > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way
> > > > > you mean -
> > > I
> > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > technology
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a
> > > > > lot of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail
> > > > > party effect and precedence
> > > > etc) .
> > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in
> > > > > sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be
> > > > > wary of terms
> > > like
> > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I
> > > > > understand the importance of academic writing style you have
> > > > > the potential to write an interesting research project and
> > > > > create a great portfolio which
> > > actually
> > > > is
> > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion
> > > > > and not let
> > > yourself
> > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > that
> > > makes
> > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > really
> > > > engaged.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox
> > > > > <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of
> > > > > > music partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > > psychological) that exist for other than musical reasons -
> > > > > > so how can this principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics',
> > > > > > in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the
> > > > > > Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112)
> > > > > > - then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's
> > > > > > "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and
> > > > > > the sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > interested
> > > in
> > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line
> > > > > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that
> > > > > > all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > > lives.
> > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts, Humanities
> > > > > > and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > ??
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of
> > > > > > the outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have
> > > > > > extra-musical information. How to use that information
> > > > > > appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse
> > > > > > people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > > to
> > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used
> > > > > > and worked together all the time. For artwork creation,
> > > > > > including sound-based music composition, would it possible
> > > > > > to break the typical perception habit or used it to create
> > > > > > artwork according to perception
> > > principles?
> > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition
> > > > > > process (understanding through thought, experience, and
> > > > > > existing knowledge,
> > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning,
> > > > > > and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > > like
> > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the
> > > > > > feelings or interact with
> > > artworks
> > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will
> > > > > > innovations
> > happen by this combination?
> > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like
> > > > > > the natural world presented to us: when we come into a
> > > > > > place, we will hear and see the surroundings and then
> > > > > > understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > > to form
> > > a
> > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > > manipulate
> > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then
> > > > > > extract the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > Yilin
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> > > > > --
> > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
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> > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > >
> > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > Dave Malham
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> > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > > --
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> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-18 13:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
its just so much better than the chocolate based music I was making before
Peter - used to really clog up my ears. Right seriously now - I'm outta
here !

On 18 August 2017 at 14:04, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hang on - we're having an academic discussion here - you can't just charge
> off and go and actually do something! ;-)
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> Augustine Leudar
> Sent: 18 August 2017 13:59
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> very well said Peter. Right enough of this - I'm off to make some sound
> based music :)
>
> On 18 August 2017 at 13:47, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Yes - academia generally is in a strange place. - I used to love it -
> > I remember being asked by someone I know why I worked for that kind of
> > money (he claimed more for transport against his tax bill than I
> > grossed) - I said "because I get paid to think" - he said fair enough, I
> get that.
> > But now, any thinking is strictly on my own time.
> > The problem is something like this: - the original reason for
> > something coming into existence is rarely identical to the reason for
> > continuing to exist.
> >
> > So, The word "university" is derived from the Latin universitas
> > magistrorum et scholarium, which roughly means "community of teachers
> > and scholars." (Wikipedia) - but in fact, scholarship is now quite
> > difficult to find the time and energy for, teaching is defined by the
> > measurement methods (to the exclusion of all else) and community
> > happens once a year at a conference.
> > In fact, there are so many competing vested interests ("stakeholders")
> > that the business (extremely big business) has become 'weaponised'
> > In the midst of all this, the footsoldiers in the trenches have little
> > influence on what universities should be doing, what academia is for.
> > And when did we last hear the word "wisdom"?
> >
> > So - the only reasons I can think of to study at PhD level are
> > personal
> > ones: the knowledge (and possibly even a glimmer of wisdom) itself -
> > the joy of discovering something new, the conviction that one didn't
> > simply mark time through life.
> > I would NOT advocate PhD level study as some passport to something
> > else (as with any academic qualification, actually - only matters if
> > you haven't got it, but doesn't guarantee anything whatsoever).
> > In other words, it's perhaps handy to think of a PhD as essentially an
> > amateur (as in 'for the love of..') thing. As such, the whole thing,
> > from proposal to methodology to types of conclusion, should, first and
> > foremost, please oneself. If others happen to like it, that's a bonus.
> > Cheers
> > ppl
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Phi
> > Shu
> > Sent: 18 August 2017 13:02
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > true that International Art English
> > <https://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/contents/international_art_english
> > >
> > (IAE) is problematic, at the same time there is an awful lot of
> > sound/music/whatever based work that suffers from over dependence on
> > spectacle and technical contrivance, a lot it is really banal, it has
> > nothing to say about anything really (beyond: "isn't this a really
> > interesting sound" - and often it's not).
> >
> > speaking as someone who jumped through the practice based PhD loop, I
> > hated the writing, but a PhD without some form of
> > intellectual/philosophical/conceptual narrative is simply not a PhD in
> > my opinion, it shouldn't be awarded. A portfolio featuring a selection
> > of random, disparate, creative works is not a PhD; equally one should
> > not need a PhD to convince gatekeepers that one is qualified to
> > produce interesting and engaging art; or that art bereft of anything
> > interesting and engaging is somehow acceptable because the person who
> > produced it has a PhD. Sure, what with the horrible funding climate
> > and aggressive neoliberal politics we are dealing with, I can see why
> > so many professional artists are now looking to retreat to academia,
> > but is that a good reason to do a PhD? and down the line where are all
> > the teaching hours going to come from? Then there's the practice led
> > research versus research led practice debate, which is more valid in the
> context of doing a PhD? Arguably the latter.
> >
> > As for the creation of "immersive" experiences, do we need them?
> > aren't we already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality, Donal
> > Trump is president the USA ffs. A recent provocation
> > <http://sonicfield.org/2017/ 08/against-immersion/> sums this up.
> >
> > Oh, also, Michael Edwards on "Why I am leaving UK academia <https://www.
> > timeshighereducation.com/blog/uk-academia-has-gone-hell-
> > handcart-and-i-quit>"
> > should be required reading for anyone thinking of being an
> > artist/composer based in academia. Which reminds me, I was at an event
> > a few years back, where a well know UK academic composer - who was
> > about to retire - gave a talk in which he advised against doing a PhD
> > if composition is something one wishes to make a future out of it -
> > because the working environment has become that horrible.
> >
> > If you want job security, become an administrator.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"
> > >
> > > A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position
> > > where "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken
> > > seriously. So even if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity,
> > > one has to be able to discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't
> > > know if anyone ever did a PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that
> > > would be a challenge to get past the research degrees committee!
> > >
> > > And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in
> > > Art Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by
> > > those automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/
> > > , http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ;
> > > https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )
> > >
> > > Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you
> > > might want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics
> > > described academia as a cancer for creativity :
> > >
> > > http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-
> > > debate-110409.html
> > >
> > > I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever
> > > their now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based
> > > on research questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields
> > > but not really for art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If
> > > art and music seeks to express something that can't be expressed
> > > verbally
> > > - how can you base such activity on verbal research questions with
> > > out turning art into something dead and pretentious and utterly
> > > limited by verbal thought processes. The solution in the arts seems
> > > to have been to make those verbal though processes ridiculously
> > > convoluted as possible . Have fun with that one anyway and good luck.
> > >
> > > On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to
> say:
> > > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal ,
> > > > I don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem
> > > > is exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research.
> > > > In that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought
> > > > rather than just propose some problems for future research. I'm
> > > > afraid that will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a
> > > > decent proposal really
> > > confuse me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > > > time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > > > electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment
> > > > music and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and
> art value.
> > > > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of
> > > > music, that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For
> > > > composition, as sound and electronic music is quite different from
> > traditional music.
> > > > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study
> > > > sound composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that
> > > > we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club
> > > > electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and
> > > > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many
> > > > people have tried to find a more humanization way to present those
> > > > art works, combination is one of a
> > > choice.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> > artists.
> > > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept
> > > > the world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep
> > > > using every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those
> > > > principles to create sth special, that would be interesting and
> > > > innovation. But indeed, sound always provided informations that
> > > > visual cues cannot
> > present.
> > > > That's also a interesting point to be research.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > > through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each
> > > > other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.
> > > >
> > > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the
> > > > other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of
> > > > cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to
> > > > dominate in particular instances.
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > >
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > >
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > >
> > > > School of Arts
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > > >
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > >
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to
> > > > do with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you
> > > > see the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really
> > > > sucks being a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy....
> > > > What's a sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound
> > designer ?
> > > > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make,
> > > > > on the
> > > > side
> > > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > > audio
> > > > ones.
> > > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > > audio perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway,
> > > > > good luck with
> > > your phd.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > > override
> > > > audio
> > > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > > like to
> > > > play
> > > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions
> > > > > > with sound
> > > > -
> > > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation
> > > > > > of
> > > > cognitive
> > > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location
> > > > > > and how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as
> > > > > > the choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have
> > > > > > from the sight of a speaker, to
> > > > the
> > > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > > > listeners
> > > > > and
> > > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > > > are
> > > > trying
> > > > > to
> > > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > > > experience
> > > > > the
> > > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something
> > > > > > more
> > > > important
> > > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can
> > > > > > completely
> > > > override
> > > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > > their
> > > use.
> > > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > > > > project
> > > > -
> > > > > I
> > > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but
> > > > > > dont
> > > > actually
> > > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would
> > > > > > say do it
> > > > the
> > > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > > > this
> > > > topic -
> > > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in
> VR.
> > > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > > > you put
> > > > a
> > > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > > > research is
> > > > > determining
> > > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > > > can you
> > > > get
> > > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > > > > .....I
> > > > am
> > > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way
> > > > > > you mean -
> > > > I
> > > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > > technology
> > > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a
> > > > > > lot of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail
> > > > > > party effect and precedence
> > > > > etc) .
> > > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in
> > > > > > sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be
> > > > > > wary of terms
> > > > like
> > > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I
> > > > > > understand the importance of academic writing style you have
> > > > > > the potential to write an interesting research project and
> > > > > > create a great portfolio which
> > > > actually
> > > > > is
> > > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion
> > > > > > and not let
> > > > yourself
> > > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > > that
> > > > makes
> > > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > > really
> > > > > engaged.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox
> > > > > > <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to
> interfere.
> > > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of
> > > > > > > music partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > > > psychological) that exist for other than musical reasons -
> > > > > > > so how can this principle be applied to enrich music and sound
> art?"
> > > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics',
> > > > > > > in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the
> > > > > > > Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112)
> > > > > > > - then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's
> > > > > > > "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and
> > > > > > > the sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing
> masses.
> > > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > > interested
> > > > in
> > > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line
> > > > > > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that
> > > > > > > all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > > > lives.
> > > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts, Humanities
> > > > > > > and Education School of Arts
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > > ??
> > > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of
> > > > > > > the outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have
> > > > > > > extra-musical information. How to use that information
> > > > > > > appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse
> > > > > > > people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > > > to
> > > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > > interesting
> > > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used
> > > > > > > and worked together all the time. For artwork creation,
> > > > > > > including sound-based music composition, would it possible
> > > > > > > to break the typical perception habit or used it to create
> > > > > > > artwork according to perception
> > > > principles?
> > > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition
> > > > > > > process (understanding through thought, experience, and
> > > > > > > existing knowledge,
> > > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning,
> > > > > > > and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > > > like
> > > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the
> > > > > > > feelings or interact with
> > > > artworks
> > > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will
> > > > > > > innovations
> > > happen by this combination?
> > > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like
> > > > > > > the natural world presented to us: when we come into a
> > > > > > > place, we will hear and see the surroundings and then
> > > > > > > understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > > > to form
> > > > a
> > > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > > > manipulate
> > > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then
> > > > > > > extract the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > > Yilin
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> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > > >
> > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > > University
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Malham
> > > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > > > YO10 5DD UK
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > > Belfast BT88LL
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-18 13:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
bye

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: 18 August 2017 14:08
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

its just so much better than the chocolate based music I was making before Peter - used to really clog up my ears. Right seriously now - I'm outta here !

On 18 August 2017 at 14:04, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:

> Hang on - we're having an academic discussion here - you can't just
> charge off and go and actually do something! ;-)
>
> Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> Senior Lecturer in Perception
> College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
>
> e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> t: 01332 593155
>
> https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
>
> University of Derby,
> Kedleston Road,
> Derby,
> DE22 1GB, UK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> Augustine Leudar
> Sent: 18 August 2017 13:59
> To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
>
> very well said Peter. Right enough of this - I'm off to make some
> sound based music :)
>
> On 18 August 2017 at 13:47, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Yes - academia generally is in a strange place. - I used to love it
> > - I remember being asked by someone I know why I worked for that
> > kind of money (he claimed more for transport against his tax bill
> > than I
> > grossed) - I said "because I get paid to think" - he said fair
> > enough, I
> get that.
> > But now, any thinking is strictly on my own time.
> > The problem is something like this: - the original reason for
> > something coming into existence is rarely identical to the reason
> > for continuing to exist.
> >
> > So, The word "university" is derived from the Latin universitas
> > magistrorum et scholarium, which roughly means "community of
> > teachers and scholars." (Wikipedia) - but in fact, scholarship is
> > now quite difficult to find the time and energy for, teaching is
> > defined by the measurement methods (to the exclusion of all else)
> > and community happens once a year at a conference.
> > In fact, there are so many competing vested interests
> > ("stakeholders") that the business (extremely big business) has become 'weaponised'
> > In the midst of all this, the footsoldiers in the trenches have
> > little influence on what universities should be doing, what academia is for.
> > And when did we last hear the word "wisdom"?
> >
> > So - the only reasons I can think of to study at PhD level are
> > personal
> > ones: the knowledge (and possibly even a glimmer of wisdom) itself -
> > the joy of discovering something new, the conviction that one didn't
> > simply mark time through life.
> > I would NOT advocate PhD level study as some passport to something
> > else (as with any academic qualification, actually - only matters if
> > you haven't got it, but doesn't guarantee anything whatsoever).
> > In other words, it's perhaps handy to think of a PhD as essentially
> > an amateur (as in 'for the love of..') thing. As such, the whole
> > thing, from proposal to methodology to types of conclusion, should,
> > first and foremost, please oneself. If others happen to like it, that's a bonus.
> > Cheers
> > ppl
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Phi Shu
> > Sent: 18 August 2017 13:02
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > true that International Art English
> > <https://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/contents/international_art_engli
> > sh
> > >
> > (IAE) is problematic, at the same time there is an awful lot of
> > sound/music/whatever based work that suffers from over dependence on
> > spectacle and technical contrivance, a lot it is really banal, it
> > has nothing to say about anything really (beyond: "isn't this a
> > really interesting sound" - and often it's not).
> >
> > speaking as someone who jumped through the practice based PhD loop,
> > I hated the writing, but a PhD without some form of
> > intellectual/philosophical/conceptual narrative is simply not a PhD
> > in my opinion, it shouldn't be awarded. A portfolio featuring a
> > selection of random, disparate, creative works is not a PhD; equally
> > one should not need a PhD to convince gatekeepers that one is
> > qualified to produce interesting and engaging art; or that art
> > bereft of anything interesting and engaging is somehow acceptable
> > because the person who produced it has a PhD. Sure, what with the
> > horrible funding climate and aggressive neoliberal politics we are
> > dealing with, I can see why so many professional artists are now
> > looking to retreat to academia, but is that a good reason to do a
> > PhD? and down the line where are all the teaching hours going to
> > come from? Then there's the practice led research versus research
> > led practice debate, which is more valid in the
> context of doing a PhD? Arguably the latter.
> >
> > As for the creation of "immersive" experiences, do we need them?
> > aren't we already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality,
> > Donal Trump is president the USA ffs. A recent provocation
> > <http://sonicfield.org/2017/ 08/against-immersion/> sums this up.
> >
> > Oh, also, Michael Edwards on "Why I am leaving UK academia <https://www.
> > timeshighereducation.com/blog/uk-academia-has-gone-hell-
> > handcart-and-i-quit>"
> > should be required reading for anyone thinking of being an
> > artist/composer based in academia. Which reminds me, I was at an
> > event a few years back, where a well know UK academic composer - who
> > was about to retire - gave a talk in which he advised against doing
> > a PhD if composition is something one wishes to make a future out of
> > it - because the working environment has become that horrible.
> >
> > If you want job security, become an administrator.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Peter Lennox
> > <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"
> > >
> > > A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position
> > > where "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken
> > > seriously. So even if one is talking about warm fuzzy
> > > subjectivity, one has to be able to discuss in hard-edged
> > > objective terms. I don't know if anyone ever did a PhD on: The
> > > parameters of "Nice" - that would be a challenge to get past the research degrees committee!
> > >
> > > And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used
> > > in Art Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been
> > > written by those automatic bullshit generators (see:
> > > https://artybollocks.com/ , http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ;
> > > http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ;
> > > https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )
> > >
> > > Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > Augustine Leudar
> > > Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway
> > > you might want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics
> > > described academia as a cancer for creativity :
> > >
> > > http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-
> > > debate-110409.html
> > >
> > > I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever
> > > their now. I think the whole concept of research having to be
> > > based on research questions is outdated - it makes sense for some
> > > fields but not really for art - in fact I think it hampers
> > > innovation. If art and music seeks to express something that can't
> > > be expressed verbally
> > > - how can you base such activity on verbal research questions with
> > > out turning art into something dead and pretentious and utterly
> > > limited by verbal thought processes. The solution in the arts
> > > seems to have been to make those verbal though processes
> > > ridiculously convoluted as possible . Have fun with that one anyway and good luck.
> > >
> > > On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like
> > > > to
> say:
> > > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal
> > > > , I don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the
> > > > problem is exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research.
> > > > In that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought
> > > > rather than just propose some problems for future research. I'm
> > > > afraid that will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a
> > > > decent proposal really
> > > confuse me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at
> > > > first time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to
> > > > combine club electronic music style with electroacoustic music,
> > > > experiment music and so on...The purpose is to have both
> > > > aesthetic value and
> art value.
> > > > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of
> > > > music, that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For
> > > > composition, as sound and electronic music is quite different
> > > > from
> > traditional music.
> > > > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study
> > > > sound composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that
> > > > we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club
> > > > electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and
> > > > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many
> > > > people have tried to find a more humanization way to present
> > > > those art works, combination is one of a
> > > choice.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> > artists.
> > > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept
> > > > the world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep
> > > > using every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those
> > > > principles to create sth special, that would be interesting and
> > > > innovation. But indeed, sound always provided informations that
> > > > visual cues cannot
> > present.
> > > > That's also a interesting point to be research.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > > through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each
> > > > other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.
> > > >
> > > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the
> > > > other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness
> > > > of cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely
> > > > to dominate in particular instances.
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > >
> > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > >
> > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > > >
> > > > School of Arts
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > > >
> > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > >
> > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > University of Derby,
> > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > Derby,
> > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > >
> > > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular
> > > > (to do with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the
> > > > way you see the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It
> > > > really sucks being a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy....
> > > > What's a sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound
> > designer ?
> > > > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would
> > > > > make, on the
> > > > side
> > > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always
> > > > > override audio
> > > > ones.
> > > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > > audio perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway,
> > > > > good luck with
> > > your phd.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox
> > > > > <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts, Humanities
> > > > > > and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > > override
> > > > audio
> > > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > > like to
> > > > play
> > > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions
> > > > > > with sound
> > > > -
> > > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation
> > > > > > of
> > > > cognitive
> > > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location
> > > > > > and how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as
> > > > > > the choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have
> > > > > > from the sight of a speaker, to
> > > > the
> > > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > > > listeners
> > > > > and
> > > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world
> > > > > > you are
> > > > trying
> > > > > to
> > > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > > > experience
> > > > > the
> > > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something
> > > > > > more
> > > > important
> > > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can
> > > > > > completely
> > > > override
> > > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > > their
> > > use.
> > > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind
> > > > > > of project
> > > > -
> > > > > I
> > > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but
> > > > > > dont
> > > > actually
> > > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would
> > > > > > say do it
> > > > the
> > > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > > > this
> > > > topic -
> > > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications
> > > > > > in
> VR.
> > > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR
> > > > > > - you put
> > > > a
> > > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in
> > > > > > a straight line but actually you are walking in a curve -
> > > > > > the research is
> > > > > determining
> > > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a
> > > > > > curve can you
> > > > get
> > > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > > > > .....I
> > > > am
> > > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way
> > > > > > you mean -
> > > > I
> > > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > > technology
> > > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a
> > > > > > lot of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail
> > > > > > party effect and precedence
> > > > > etc) .
> > > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in
> > > > > > sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be
> > > > > > wary of terms
> > > > like
> > > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I
> > > > > > understand the importance of academic writing style you have
> > > > > > the potential to write an interesting research project and
> > > > > > create a great portfolio which
> > > > actually
> > > > > is
> > > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with
> > > > > > unnecessary esoteric language . My advice would be to follow
> > > > > > your passion and not let
> > > > yourself
> > > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in
> > > > > > or that
> > > > makes
> > > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > > really
> > > > > engaged.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox
> > > > > > <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to
> interfere.
> > > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of
> > > > > > > music partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > > > psychological) that exist for other than musical reasons -
> > > > > > > so how can this principle be applied to enrich music and
> > > > > > > sound
> art?"
> > > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take
> > > > > > > the principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive
> > > > > > > Physics', in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems
> > > > > > > in the Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial
> > > > > > > Representation; 99-112)
> > > > > > > - then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's
> > > > > > > "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and
> > > > > > > the sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing
> masses.
> > > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > > interested
> > > > in
> > > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line
> > > > > > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in
> > > > > > > which much is not known (an exciting area for research,
> > > > > > > then). But this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal,
> > > > > > > is very hard work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be
> > > > > > > really clear (to
> > > > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem
> > > > > > > that all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > > > lives.
> > > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts, Humanities
> > > > > > > and Education School of Arts
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > > ??
> > > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of
> > > > > > > the outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have
> > > > > > > extra-musical information. How to use that information
> > > > > > > appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse
> > > > > > > people's association and extra-musical experiences? And,
> > > > > > > How
> > > > to
> > > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > > interesting
> > > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used
> > > > > > > and worked together all the time. For artwork creation,
> > > > > > > including sound-based music composition, would it possible
> > > > > > > to break the typical perception habit or used it to create
> > > > > > > artwork according to perception
> > > > principles?
> > > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition
> > > > > > > process (understanding through thought, experience, and
> > > > > > > existing knowledge,
> > > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For
> > > > > > > example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with
> > > > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would
> > > > > > > be act
> > > > like
> > > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the
> > > > > > > work more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience
> > > > > > > the feelings or interact with
> > > > artworks
> > > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will
> > > > > > > innovations
> > > happen by this combination?
> > > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is
> > > > > > > like the natural world presented to us: when we come into
> > > > > > > a place, we will hear and see the surroundings and then
> > > > > > > understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential
> > > > > > > elements to form
> > > > a
> > > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going
> > > > > > > to
> > > > manipulate
> > > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then
> > > > > > > extract the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > > Yilin
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> > on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > > >
> > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > > University
> > > > >
> > > > > Dave Malham
> > > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York
> > > > > York
> > > > > YO10 5DD UK
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-18 12:54:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I actually quite enjoyed the writing ironically and I have high regard for
the goals and principles of scholarship. I believe a thorough knowledge of
whats been done before (lit review) referencing etc are all admirable and
essential. However I do not agree with you that research needs to have a
written conceptual framework in order to be considered research - this is
a circular argument that I have heard many times - however I do no think
this should define what a research is. It refers to a method imported from
science and philosophy - have a question - experiment or argue to answer
that question - but I do not believe such a focussed approach produces
innovation and new discoveries in the arts - in fact historically it wasn't
.My PhD was multidicplinary -in science and art. Ironically many people I
know in the sciences said the actual discoveries they made in their
research had nothing to do with their research questions but were
accidental observations they made along the way - yet in the arts I found
people far more dogmatic about"trying to stay focussed" , almost as if the
arts were desperately trying to justify its position in academies. I found
the people in the labs to be vibrant and creative - whereas in the arts
everyone was trying to take themselves so seriously. The actual geniuses I
met in the sciences never tried to "act smart" they were usually very down
to earth - in the arts ..... well....often desperate to show how clever
they were with their thesaurus always on hand.
I would argue the fundamental goal of the research is to add to the field
of human knowledge, to explore new areas to create things that haven't been
done before (not necessarily new technologies) - to conduct research. I am
aware of plenty of PhD's that have a perfectly worded "conceptual
framework" but add very very little if anything to the field of human
knowledge but split hairs over and over again in order to feign the
appearance of breaking new ground. On the other hand I knew some absolute
geniuses who came up with incredible original work - but they dropped out
as they were hopeless at writing. So is the goal of artistic research to
create incredible innovative new artforms that have never been done before,
works of art to rival the great classics of the past - or is it to provide
a tight conceptual framework. If research is always restricted to a tight
cohesive goal focussed on one outcome and avenue of investigation only -
many other avenues of discovery and many modern inventions would never have
been made.

No-one would deny that many of the greatest artists of our time made huge
progress and developments in the arts - but often would write nothing at
all about their work. They were also conducting research - I hold that we
need to reapraise our approach to the arts in academia and it seems that
whilst I am in a minority - there are some at least that hold the same
views . Otherwise we will be selecting for people who are good at writing
academese rather than actually creating innovative artwork - and of course
once they reach positions of power they will hold that this is the only
real way to conduct research and they will only open the gates to those
that think like them and that talk like them. Its a self perpetuating
monster and its a monster the public will not fund forever - thus the
sudden lurch towards making contacts with industry in ats academies.. There
of course exceptional people in academia capable of both writing and
creating fantastic artwork and some of the most inspired and original work
I have ever heard has been in academic circles it is a love hate
relatonship for me.
BTW I agree with you that constant reliance on technological
novelty is often vacuous - after all in the past artists were not
constantly expected to create new types of canvas, people were interested
in what they painted on that canvas - for my own work I see these things as
tools, its what I paint with those tools that matters to me not the tools
themselves - new tools just allow me to pant pictures I find more
interesting using new techniques.

On 18 August 2017 at 13:02, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> true that International Art English
> <https://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/contents/international_art_english>
> (IAE) is problematic, at the same time there is an awful lot of
> sound/music/whatever based work that suffers from over dependence on
> spectacle and technical contrivance, a lot it is really banal, it has
> nothing to say about anything really (beyond: "isn't this a really
> interesting sound" - and often it's not).
>
> speaking as someone who jumped through the practice based PhD loop, I hated
> the writing, but a PhD without some form of
> intellectual/philosophical/conceptual narrative is simply not a PhD in my
> opinion, it shouldn't be awarded. A portfolio featuring a selection of
> random, disparate, creative works is not a PhD; equally one should not need
> a PhD to convince gatekeepers that one is qualified to produce interesting
> and engaging art; or that art bereft of anything interesting and engaging
> is somehow acceptable because the person who produced it has a PhD. Sure,
> what with the horrible funding climate and aggressive neoliberal politics
> we are dealing with, I can see why so many professional artists are now
> looking to retreat to academia, but is that a good reason to do a PhD? and
> down the line where are all the teaching hours going to come from? Then
> there's the practice led research versus research led practice debate,
> which is more valid in the context of doing a PhD? Arguably the latter.
>
> As for the creation of "immersive" experiences, do we need them? aren't we
> already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality, Donal Trump is
> president the USA ffs. A recent provocation
> <http://sonicfield.org/2017/08/against-immersion/> sums this up.
>
> Oh, also, Michael Edwards on "Why I am leaving UK academia
> <https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/uk-academia-has-gone-hell-
> handcart-and-i-quit>"
> should be required reading for anyone thinking of being an artist/composer
> based in academia. Which reminds me, I was at an event a few years back,
> where a well know UK academic composer - who was about to retire - gave a
> talk in which he advised against doing a PhD if composition is something
> one wishes to make a future out of it - because the working environment has
> become that horrible.
>
> If you want job security, become an administrator.
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"
> >
> > A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position where
> > "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken seriously. So
> even
> > if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity, one has to be able to
> > discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't know if anyone ever did a
> > PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that would be a challenge to get past
> > the research degrees committee!
> >
> > And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in Art
> > Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by those
> > automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/ ,
> > http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ;
> > https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )
> >
> > Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you might
> > want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics described academia
> as
> > a cancer for creativity :
> >
> > http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-
> > debate-110409.html
> >
> > I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever their
> > now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based on research
> > questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields but not really for
> > art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If art and music seeks to
> > express something that can't be expressed verbally - how can you base
> such
> > activity on verbal research questions with out turning art into something
> > dead and pretentious and utterly limited by verbal thought processes. The
> > solution in the arts seems to have been to make those verbal though
> > processes ridiculously convoluted as possible . Have fun with that one
> > anyway and good luck.
> >
> > On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I
> > > don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is
> > > exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In
> > > that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought rather than
> > > just propose some problems for future research. I'm afraid that will
> > > limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really
> > confuse me.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > > time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > > electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment music
> > > and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value.
> > > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of music,
> > > that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For composition, as
> > > sound and electronic music is quite different from traditional music.
> > > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study sound
> > > composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that we will
> > > know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club electronic means
> > > extract some approaches or ideas from it, and with principles, those
> > > sound works will be more humanization and interesting rather than
> > > serious all the time. There are many people have tried to find a more
> > > humanization way to present those art works, combination is one of a
> > choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> artists.
> > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept the
> > > world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every
> > > senses which is intuitive. If artists use those principles to create
> > > sth special, that would be interesting and innovation. But indeed,
> > > sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot present.
> > > That's also a interesting point to be research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient
> > > alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each
> > > other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good
> > > example of audio altering visual perception.
> > >
> > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other,
> > > since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the
> > > sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in
> > > particular instances.
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > >
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > >
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > >
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > >
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine
> > > Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do
> > > with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see
> > > the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being
> > > a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a
> > > sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ?
> > > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on
> > > > the
> > > side
> > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > audio
> > > ones.
> > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual
> > > > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio
> > > > perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with
> > your phd.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > > > > Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > override
> > > audio
> > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like
> > > > > to
> > > play
> > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with
> > > > > sound
> > > -
> > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of
> > > cognitive
> > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and
> > > > > how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as the
> > > > > choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have from the
> > > > > sight of a speaker, to
> > > the
> > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > > listeners
> > > > and
> > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are
> > > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > > experience
> > > > the
> > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more
> > > important
> > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely
> > > override
> > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their
> > use.
> > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > > > project
> > > -
> > > > I
> > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont
> > > actually
> > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do
> > > > > it
> > > the
> > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this
> > > topic -
> > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you
> > > > > put
> > > a
> > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > > research is
> > > > determining
> > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can
> > > > > you
> > > get
> > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > > > .....I
> > > am
> > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you
> > > > > mean -
> > > I
> > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > technology
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot
> > > > > of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail party
> > > > > effect and precedence
> > > > etc) .
> > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound
> > > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of
> > > > > terms
> > > like
> > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand
> > > > > the importance of academic writing style you have the potential to
> > > > > write an interesting research project and create a great portfolio
> > > > > which
> > > actually
> > > > is
> > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion and
> > > > > not let
> > > yourself
> > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > that
> > > makes
> > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really
> > > > engaged.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of music
> > > > > > partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological)
> > > > > > that exist for other than musical reasons - so how can this
> > > > > > principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in
> > > > > > Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy
> > > > > > and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare
> > > > > > "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the
> > > > > > Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the
> > > > > > sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > interested
> > > in
> > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/
> > > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that all
> > > > > > academics wrestle with, all their
> > > > lives.
> > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf
> > > > > > Of
> > > ??
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the
> > > > > > outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have extra-musical
> > > > > > information. How to use that information appropriately to create
> > > > > > artwork so that it could arouse people's association and
> > > > > > extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > > to
> > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and
> > > > > > worked together all the time. For artwork creation, including
> > > > > > sound-based music composition, would it possible to break the
> > > > > > typical perception habit or used it to create artwork according
> > > > > > to perception
> > > principles?
> > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process
> > > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing
> > > > > > knowledge,
> > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition process,
> > > > > > will it creates fantastic artwork that brings abundant
> > > > > > information even dramatic experiences? For example, using
> > > > > > symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning, and
> > > > > > composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > > like
> > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the feelings
> > > > > > or interact with
> > > artworks
> > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will innovations
> > happen by this combination?
> > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the
> > > > > > natural world presented to us: when we come into a place, we
> > > > > > will hear and see the surroundings and then understand what has
> > > > > > happened here, so as "sound
> > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to
> > > > > > form
> > > a
> > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > > manipulate
> > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract
> > > > > > the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > Yilin
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > > > Belfast BT88LL
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and
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> > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the
> > > sender
> > > > > and let them know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > here,
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > >
> > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > Dave Malham
> > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > > YO10 5DD UK
> > > >
> > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Peter Lennox
2017-08-18 13:10:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
As far as having a well-developed question, see http://www.weizmann.ac.il/mcb/UriAlon/sites/mcb.UriAlon/files/uploads/medawar.pdf - "is the scientific paper a fraud?" - Medawar (along with thinkers like Popper) argues that the having of an idea, or the formulation of a hypothesis isn't itself actually scientific - inspiration is one thing, then scientifically testing it is another. But there is an inexorable pressure on us to pretend we knew what we were doing all along - and began with a well-conditioned problem ("research question") which we deductively tested to destruction.
But a lot of the time, the original question was something like "what happens if I poke this?"
Einstein (supposedly) said "...if we knew what it was we were doing, we wouldn't call it research"

Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
Senior Lecturer in Perception
College of Arts, Humanities and Education
School of Arts

e: ***@derby.ac.uk
t: 01332 593155

https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox

University of Derby,
Kedleston Road,
Derby,
DE22 1GB, UK


-----Original Message-----
From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
Sent: 18 August 2017 13:54
To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)

I actually quite enjoyed the writing ironically and I have high regard for the goals and principles of scholarship. I believe a thorough knowledge of whats been done before (lit review) referencing etc are all admirable and essential. However I do not agree with you that research needs to have a written conceptual framework in order to be considered research - this is a circular argument that I have heard many times - however I do no think this should define what a research is. It refers to a method imported from science and philosophy - have a question - experiment or argue to answer that question - but I do not believe such a focussed approach produces innovation and new discoveries in the arts - in fact historically it wasn't .My PhD was multidicplinary -in science and art. Ironically many people I know in the sciences said the actual discoveries they made in their research had nothing to do with their research questions but were accidental observations they made along the way - yet in the arts I found people far more dogmatic about"trying to stay focussed" , almost as if the arts were desperately trying to justify its position in academies. I found the people in the labs to be vibrant and creative - whereas in the arts everyone was trying to take themselves so seriously. The actual geniuses I met in the sciences never tried to "act smart" they were usually very down to earth - in the arts ..... well....often desperate to show how clever they were with their thesaurus always on hand.
I would argue the fundamental goal of the research is to add to the field of human knowledge, to explore new areas to create things that haven't been done before (not necessarily new technologies) - to conduct research. I am aware of plenty of PhD's that have a perfectly worded "conceptual framework" but add very very little if anything to the field of human knowledge but split hairs over and over again in order to feign the appearance of breaking new ground. On the other hand I knew some absolute geniuses who came up with incredible original work - but they dropped out as they were hopeless at writing. So is the goal of artistic research to create incredible innovative new artforms that have never been done before, works of art to rival the great classics of the past - or is it to provide a tight conceptual framework. If research is always restricted to a tight cohesive goal focussed on one outcome and avenue of investigation only - many other avenues of discovery and many modern inventions would never have been made.

No-one would deny that many of the greatest artists of our time made huge progress and developments in the arts - but often would write nothing at all about their work. They were also conducting research - I hold that we need to reapraise our approach to the arts in academia and it seems that whilst I am in a minority - there are some at least that hold the same views . Otherwise we will be selecting for people who are good at writing academese rather than actually creating innovative artwork - and of course once they reach positions of power they will hold that this is the only real way to conduct research and they will only open the gates to those that think like them and that talk like them. Its a self perpetuating monster and its a monster the public will not fund forever - thus the sudden lurch towards making contacts with industry in ats academies.. There of course exceptional people in academia capable of both writing and creating fantastic artwork and some of the most inspired and original work I have ever heard has been in academic circles it is a love hate relatonship for me.
BTW I agree with you that constant reliance on technological novelty is often vacuous - after all in the past artists were not constantly expected to create new types of canvas, people were interested in what they painted on that canvas - for my own work I see these things as tools, its what I paint with those tools that matters to me not the tools themselves - new tools just allow me to pant pictures I find more interesting using new techniques.

On 18 August 2017 at 13:02, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> true that International Art English
> <https://www.canopycanopycanopy.com/contents/international_art_english
> >
> (IAE) is problematic, at the same time there is an awful lot of
> sound/music/whatever based work that suffers from over dependence on
> spectacle and technical contrivance, a lot it is really banal, it has
> nothing to say about anything really (beyond: "isn't this a really
> interesting sound" - and often it's not).
>
> speaking as someone who jumped through the practice based PhD loop, I
> hated the writing, but a PhD without some form of
> intellectual/philosophical/conceptual narrative is simply not a PhD in
> my opinion, it shouldn't be awarded. A portfolio featuring a selection
> of random, disparate, creative works is not a PhD; equally one should
> not need a PhD to convince gatekeepers that one is qualified to
> produce interesting and engaging art; or that art bereft of anything
> interesting and engaging is somehow acceptable because the person who
> produced it has a PhD. Sure, what with the horrible funding climate
> and aggressive neoliberal politics we are dealing with, I can see why
> so many professional artists are now looking to retreat to academia,
> but is that a good reason to do a PhD? and down the line where are all
> the teaching hours going to come from? Then there's the practice led
> research versus research led practice debate, which is more valid in the context of doing a PhD? Arguably the latter.
>
> As for the creation of "immersive" experiences, do we need them?
> aren't we already up to our necks in Baudillarian hyerpreality, Donal
> Trump is president the USA ffs. A recent provocation
> <http://sonicfield.org/2017/08/against-immersion/> sums this up.
>
> Oh, also, Michael Edwards on "Why I am leaving UK academia
> <https://www.timeshighereducation.com/blog/uk-academia-has-gone-hell-
> handcart-and-i-quit>"
> should be required reading for anyone thinking of being an
> artist/composer based in academia. Which reminds me, I was at an event
> a few years back, where a well know UK academic composer - who was
> about to retire - gave a talk in which he advised against doing a PhD
> if composition is something one wishes to make a future out of it -
> because the working environment has become that horrible.
>
> If you want job security, become an administrator.
>
> On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > See also "Creative Inhibition: how and why?"
> >
> > A problem is that we have gradually moved to an insidious position
> > where "knowledge" has to be expressed in language to be taken
> > seriously. So
> even
> > if one is talking about warm fuzzy subjectivity, one has to be able
> > to discuss in hard-edged objective terms. I don't know if anyone
> > ever did a PhD on: The parameters of "Nice" - that would be a
> > challenge to get past the research degrees committee!
> >
> > And this brings us to the kind of language that is commonly used in
> > Art Galleries. Much of it looks like it has actually been written by
> > those automatic bullshit generators (see: https://artybollocks.com/
> > , http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ ; http://www.buzzwords4u.co.uk/ ;
> > https://pdos.csail.mit.edu/archive/scigen/ )
> >
> > Sorry - we just may have strayed from the surround path...
> >
> > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> >
> > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > t: 01332 593155
> >
> > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> >
> > University of Derby,
> > Kedleston Road,
> > Derby,
> > DE22 1GB, UK
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of
> > Augustine Leudar
> > Sent: 17 August 2017 21:53
> > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> >
> > I think you misunderstand what I am saying but it's ok. Anyway you
> > might want to look at Stanford. Some of their top academics
> > described academia
> as
> > a cancer for creativity :
> >
> > http://news.stanford.edu/news/2009/november2/art-academia-
> > debate-110409.html
> >
> > I believe some PhDs now have almost no written content whatsoever
> > their now. I think the whole concept of research having to be based
> > on research questions is outdated - it makes sense for some fields
> > but not really for art - in fact I think it hampers innovation. If
> > art and music seeks to express something that can't be expressed
> > verbally - how can you base
> such
> > activity on verbal research questions with out turning art into
> > something dead and pretentious and utterly limited by verbal thought
> > processes. The solution in the arts seems to have been to make those
> > verbal though processes ridiculously convoluted as possible . Have
> > fun with that one anyway and good luck.
> >
> > On 17 August 2017 at 13:40, 霖の <***@qq.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say:
> > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal ,
> > > I don't know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem
> > > is exactly what Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research.
> > > In that case, the objects... is more like a train of thought
> > > rather than just propose some problems for future research. I'm
> > > afraid that will limit the creation as well. So.. how to write a
> > > decent proposal really
> > confuse me.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first
> > > time, I used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club
> > > electronic music style with electroacoustic music, experiment
> > > music and so on...The purpose is to have both aesthetic value and art value.
> > > Sound is a quite potential sources and it is also the future of
> > > music, that's why I'm not rejected to use this term...For
> > > composition, as sound and electronic music is quite different from traditional music.
> > > Composers , always are audio engineer as well. And when we study
> > > sound composition, we also need to learn psychoacoustics so that
> > > we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides, combine club
> > > electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, and
> > > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and
> > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many
> > > people have tried to find a more humanization way to present those
> > > art works, combination is one of a
> > choice.
> > >
> > >
> > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual
> artists.
> > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one
> > > dominate another. What I referred here is human always percept
> > > the world with all senses, even in dark room, they still keep
> > > using every senses which is intuitive. If artists use those
> > > principles to create sth special, that would be interesting and
> > > innovation. But indeed, sound always provided informations that visual cues cannot present.
> > > That's also a interesting point to be research.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------ Original ------------------
> > > From: "Peter Lennox";<***@derby.ac.uk>;
> > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM
> > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<***@music.vt.edu>;
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible
> > > transient alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing
> > > through each other, to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each
> > > other, is a good example of audio altering visual perception.
> > >
> > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the
> > > other, since the real point lies in the comparative robustness of
> > > cues -the sense with the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to
> > > dominate in particular instances.
> > >
> > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > >
> > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > >
> > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education
> > >
> > > School of Arts
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk<mailto:***@derby.ac.uk>
> > >
> > > t: 01332 593155
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > >
> > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > University of Derby,
> > > Kedleston Road,
> > > Derby,
> > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sursound <sursound-***@music.vt.edu> on behalf of
> > > Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46
> > > To: Surround Sound discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > >
> > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to
> > > do with a football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you
> > > see the way the ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really
> > > sucks being a sound artist sometimes ! oh so you're an audio
> > > guy.... What's a sound artist ? What like a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ?
> > > ooohhhhh a jumped up button pusher with delusions of grandeur........
> > >
> > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <***@york.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make,
> > > > on the
> > > side
> > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override
> > > > audio
> > > ones.
> > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the
> > > > visual overrules everything else but, although not as common,
> > > > audio perceptions can override visual ones at times. Anyway,
> > > > good luck with
> > your phd.
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <***@derby.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Wot he said...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception
> > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts
> > > > >
> > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > >
> > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > >
> > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > Derby,
> > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25
> > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > >
> > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often
> > > > > override
> > > audio
> > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I
> > > > > like to
> > > play
> > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions
> > > > > with sound
> > > -
> > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation
> > > > > of
> > > cognitive
> > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location
> > > > > and how it looks is just as much a compositional decision as
> > > > > the choice of sounds, every sensory experience people have
> > > > > from the sight of a speaker, to
> > > the
> > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for
> > > > > listeners
> > > > and
> > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you
> > > > > are
> > > trying
> > > > to
> > > > > transport them to is..
> > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and
> > > > > experience
> > > > the
> > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something
> > > > > more
> > > important
> > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can
> > > > > completely
> > > override
> > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in
> > > > > their
> > use.
> > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of
> > > > > project
> > > -
> > > > I
> > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but
> > > > > dont
> > > actually
> > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would
> > > > > say do it
> > > the
> > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it.
> > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in
> > > > > this
> > > topic -
> > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR.
> > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR -
> > > > > you put
> > > a
> > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a
> > > > > straight line but actually you are walking in a curve - the
> > > > > research is
> > > > determining
> > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve
> > > > > can you
> > > get
> > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve".
> > > > > .....I
> > > am
> > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way
> > > > > you mean -
> > > I
> > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like
> > > > > technology
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a
> > > > > lot of installations in natural environments that integrate
> > > > > psychoacoustic and cognitive research (such as the cocktail
> > > > > party effect and precedence
> > > > etc) .
> > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in
> > > > > sound installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be
> > > > > wary of terms
> > > like
> > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I
> > > > > understand the importance of academic writing style you have
> > > > > the potential to write an interesting research project and
> > > > > create a great portfolio which
> > > actually
> > > > is
> > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary
> > > > > esoteric language . My advice would be to follow your passion
> > > > > and not let
> > > yourself
> > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or
> > > > > that
> > > makes
> > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be
> > > > > really
> > > > engaged.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox
> > > > > <***@derby.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere.
> > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague.
> > > > > > You seem to be saying something like "the perception of
> > > > > > music partly relies on processes (neural, cognitive and
> > > > > > psychological) that exist for other than musical reasons -
> > > > > > so how can this principle be applied to enrich music and sound art?"
> > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the
> > > > > > principle of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics',
> > > > > > in Eilan, McCarthy and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the
> > > > > > Philosophy and Psychology of Spatial Representation; 99-112)
> > > > > > - then compare "flight of the bumble bee" with Prokoviev's
> > > > > > "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and
> > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical
> > > > > > associations about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and
> > > > > > the sorts of movement (acceleration, change of
> > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses.
> > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of
> > > > > > Debussey)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists
> > > > > > interested
> > > in
> > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line
> > > > > > (https://www.youtube.com/ watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which
> > > > > > much is not known (an exciting area for research, then). But
> > > > > > this stage, of formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard
> > > > > > work. Simplicity is the key - trying to be really clear (to
> > > > > > yourself) what it is you want to know. That's a problem that
> > > > > > all academics wrestle with, all their
> > > > lives.
> > > > > > Good luck!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA
> > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception College of Arts, Humanities
> > > > > > and Education School of Arts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > e: ***@derby.ac.uk
> > > > > > t: 01332 593155
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox
> > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox
> > > > > >
> > > > > > University of Derby,
> > > > > > Kedleston Road,
> > > > > > Derby,
> > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-***@music.vt.edu] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of
> > > ??
> > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33
> > > > > > To: sursound <***@music.vt.edu>
> > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful.
> > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically
> > > > > > designated the art form in which the sound is the basic unit.
> > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub
> > > > > > questions,here is a brief description :
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions
> > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose
> > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of
> > > > > > the outer world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as
> > > > > > sound-based music, the sources may naturally have
> > > > > > extra-musical information. How to use that information
> > > > > > appropriately to create artwork so that it could arouse
> > > > > > people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How
> > > to
> > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates
> > > > > > interesting
> > > > > perception experiences?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1.2 Perception
> > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used
> > > > > > and worked together all the time. For artwork creation,
> > > > > > including sound-based music composition, would it possible
> > > > > > to break the typical perception habit or used it to create
> > > > > > artwork according to perception
> > > principles?
> > > > > > 1.3Cognition
> > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition
> > > > > > process (understanding through thought, experience, and
> > > > > > existing knowledge,
> > > > > etc.).
> > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or
> > > > > > audiovisual artwork could follow the path of cognition
> > > > > > process, will it creates fantastic artwork that brings
> > > > > > abundant information even dramatic experiences? For example,
> > > > > > using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound with special meaning,
> > > > > > and composed them appropriately, it would be act
> > > like
> > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the
> > > > > > experiences to audiences and assist them understand the work
> > > > > > more easily. Thus, people will focus on experience the
> > > > > > feelings or interact with
> > > artworks
> > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here.
> > > > > > 1.4 Development
> > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and
> > > > > > cognitive psychology mentioned above, when combining the
> > > > > > sound-based artwork with other forms of art, will
> > > > > > innovations
> > happen by this combination?
> > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture
> > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music.
> > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to
> > > > > > audiences, so how about creating sound sculpture? It is like
> > > > > > the natural world presented to us: when we come into a
> > > > > > place, we will hear and see the surroundings and then
> > > > > > understand what has happened here, so as "sound
> > > > > sculpture" mentioned here.
> > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements
> > > > > > to form
> > > a
> > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to
> > > manipulate
> > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then
> > > > > > extract the result to form a final dissertation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you very much,
> > > > > > Yilin
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> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD Company Number : NI635217
> > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, Belfast BT88LL
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University.
> > > >
> > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the
> > > > University
> > > >
> > > > Dave Malham
> > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York
> > > > YO10 5DD UK
> > > >
> > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio'
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > > Company Number : NI635217
> > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > > Belfast BT88LL
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Phi Shu
2017-08-18 14:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
>
> "No-one would deny that many of the greatest artists of our time made huge
> progress and developments in the arts - but often would write nothing at
> all about their work."


how many of the "greatest artists of our time" bothered doing a PhD?
Artists electing to do a PhD is a relatively recent phenomenon, there was a
time when an MFA was as far as most went, and before that a degree
sufficed.

a PhD is simply your license to do research in an academic institution,
nothing more, so if you don't actually do any novel research acquiring it,
you shouldn't be awarded the title, sorry, that's just the way I see it.

"It never ceases to amaze me how many PhD candidates have NO idea what they
> want to research before they register for the degree."


I would agree these people should not be doing a PhD, they should instead
be given a coloring book ; )
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Augustine Leudar
2017-08-20 13:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
"Artists electing to do a PhD is a relatively recent phenomenon, there was
a time when an MFA was as far as most went, and before that a degree
sufficed."

Which kind of makes my point . Although PhD is the arts may be relatively
new - research and innovation, new discoveries in the arts are not . If
academia adopts a new field and wished to make grounbreaking new work in
that field - to discover new knowledge - it cannot ignore the methods by
which new work in that field has been created for thousands of years. In
the case of art new ground has not traditionally been broken by asking
verbal research questions - they are their own language - you can no more
translate true innovation in the arts into the spoken word than you could a
pure mathematics PhD.

"PhD is simply your license to do research in an academic institution"

This is what a PhD may mean to you - but it is not the objective definition
of a PhD and many people will hold a different view

"It never ceases to amaze me how many PhD candidates have NO idea what
they want
to research before they register for the degree. I would agree these
people should not be doing a PhD, they should instead be given a coloring
book ; )"

I have a close family member who is a Professor of physics - she tells me
it is quite common for students to signifiy they wish to do a PhD without
knowing the exact area they will be studying - it is the dpartment that
tells them what their PhD thesis will be on - and often they end up doing
something quite different . I will inform her to issue all future
applicants with coloring books.


On 18 August 2017 at 15:48, Phi Shu <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> >
> > "No-one would deny that many of the greatest artists of our time made
> huge
> > progress and developments in the arts - but often would write nothing at
> > all about their work."
>
>
> how many of the "greatest artists of our time" bothered doing a PhD?
> Artists electing to do a PhD is a relatively recent phenomenon, there was a
> time when an MFA was as far as most went, and before that a degree
> sufficed.
>
> a PhD is simply your license to do research in an academic institution,
> nothing more, so if you don't actually do any novel research acquiring it,
> you shouldn't be awarded the title, sorry, that's just the way I see it.
>
> "It never ceases to amaze me how many PhD candidates have NO idea what they
> > want to research before they register for the degree."
>
>
> I would agree these people should not be doing a PhD, they should instead
> be given a coloring book ; )
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--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Phi Shu
2017-08-20 15:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
>
> "Artists electing to do a PhD is a relatively recent phenomenon, there was
> a time when an MFA was as far as most went, and before that a degree
> sufficed."
>
> Which kind of makes my point .


arguably, rather than being driven by the academicisation of creative
practice, this reflects changes in cultural labor markets and the emergence
of a growth in