Discussion:
Sursound Digest, Vol 107, Issue 18
(too old to reply)
Sean Devonport
2017-06-30 09:37:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
4
Send Sursound mailing list submissions to
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
You can reach the person managing the list at
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Sursound digest..."
WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE
ALSO EDIT THE MESSAGE BODY
You are receiving the digest so when replying, please remember to edit
your Subject line to that of the original message you are replying to, so
it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Sursound-list digest…" the
subject should match the post you are replying to.
Also, please EDIT the quoted post so that it is not the entire digest, but
just the post you are replying to - this will keep the archive useful and
not polluted with extraneous posts.
This is the responsibility of digest subscribers. the community and list
subscribers care about the integrity of the threads and archives so this is
important.
1. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations
(Richard Foss)
2. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations
(Augustine Leudar)
3. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations
(Augustine Leudar)
4. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations
(Richard Foss)
5. Re: Multichannel players for permanent installations
(Augustine Leudar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:33:48 +0200
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the flexibility
and capability of Max/MSP.
Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation
determination.
The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle)
around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two
dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the third
dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone
orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to
indicate the location of the sound.
The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual speaker
arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently
setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a
sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made their
algorithms freely available!!
A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo. Currently
using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated.
Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this system
in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I do
that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your
hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a
map
of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive
seen a
lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already
pretty
happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I
couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with the
AVB system.
One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real
time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space,
using a
client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and the
client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you
type
in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a
representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the
movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the
speakers.
So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels with
movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed
channels?)
or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio
style),
where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.
Richard.
That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will go
into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
link
together switches for larger port numbers.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Hi Richard -
So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
out of
the mac ?
can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have to
run
a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one. So
for
example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to the
outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and each
speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
audio
Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up to
120
speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
passive
speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <http://www
<
http://www/>.
technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
Richard.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill stick
to
passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
for
larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them as
well
as audio.
https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
chain
them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
ethernet
cable to each one ?
Hi,
I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
will
require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
Perhaps
for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
anything
decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
The available current may power the DAC though.
Ciao,
Dave
Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
Hi Richard -
There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
soundscape is
designed in pre production for this installation and then its
just a
multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
do
are
interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
around
the
space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
might
be
good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
the
way
power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet cable.....
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachme
nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/>
attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/
mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/
attachment.html>>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:37:20 +0100
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Funny - I have been involved in two 3d audio tunnels recently - if you ever
want to sync max up with your stuff let me know - I have also been matching
max with Unity and other 3D technologies recently which has produced
interesting results. Im doing a demo in London around the beginning of
September if you're around PM me :)
That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the
flexibility
and capability of Max/MSP.
Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation
determination.
The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle)
around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two
dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the
third
dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone
orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to
indicate the location of the sound.
The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual speaker
arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently
setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a
sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made their
algorithms freely available!!
A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo. Currently
using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this
system
in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I
do
that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your
hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a
map
of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive
seen a
lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already
pretty
happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I
couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with
the
AVB system.
One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real
time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space,
using a
client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and
the
client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you
type
in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a
representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the
movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the
speakers.
So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels
with
movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed
channels?)
or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio
style),
where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.
Richard.
That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will
go
into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
link
together switches for larger port numbers.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Hi Richard -
So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
out of
the mac ?
can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have
to
run
a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one.
So
for
example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to
the
outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and
each
speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
audio
Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up
to
120
speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
passive
speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <
http://www
<
http://www/>.
technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
Richard.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill
stick
to
passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
for
larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them
as
well
as audio.
https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
chain
them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
ethernet
cable to each one ?
Hi,
I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
will
require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
Perhaps
for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
anything
decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
The available current may power the DAC though.
Ciao,
Dave
Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
Hi Richard -
There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
soundscape is
designed in pre production for this installation and then its
just a
multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
do
are
interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
around
the
space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
might
be
good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
the
way
power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet
cable.....
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachme
nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/>
attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/
mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/
attachment.html>>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/8494e014/attachment.html>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:39:28 +0100
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
by the way have you already done this thing pointing the phone and
indicating a sound in 3d space - if so do you have a link to it ?
This is a pretty crappy video of very early prototype I did a few years ago

That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the
flexibility
and capability of Max/MSP.
Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation
determination.
The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle)
around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two
dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the
third
dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone
orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to
indicate the location of the sound.
The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual speaker
arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently
setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a
sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made their
algorithms freely available!!
A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo. Currently
using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this
system
in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I
do
that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your
hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a
map
of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive
seen a
lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already
pretty
happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I
couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with
the
AVB system.
One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real
time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space,
using a
client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and
the
client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you
type
in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a
representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the
movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the
speakers.
So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels
with
movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed
channels?)
or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio
style),
where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.
Richard.
That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will
go
into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
link
together switches for larger port numbers.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Hi Richard -
So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
out of
the mac ?
can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have
to
run
a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one.
So
for
example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to
the
outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and
each
speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
audio
Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up
to
120
speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
passive
speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <
http://www
<
http://www/>.
technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
Richard.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill
stick
to
passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
for
larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them
as
well
as audio.
https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
chain
them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
ethernet
cable to each one ?
Hi,
I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
will
require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
Perhaps
for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
anything
decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
The available current may power the DAC though.
Ciao,
Dave
Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
Hi Richard -
There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
soundscape is
designed in pre production for this installation and then its
just a
multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
do
are
interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
around
the
space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
might
be
good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
the
way
power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet
cable.....
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachme
nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/>
attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/
mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/
attachment.html>>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/af720501/attachment.html>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:23:24 +0200
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
That?s an inspiring video, thanks!
And many points of contact. A few years back we used the Microsoft Kinect
to allow for hand control over sound localization, much like you appear to
be using the wii in the video. This worked well, except for the fact that
the user had to be positioned in a fairly confined area. The mobile device
control removes this restriction.
Last year we used Unity and the Oculus with the LeapMotion controller to
create a virtual room and move ?grabable? sound sources around it. We tried
providing the audio over headphones using Unity?s capabilities, and also
Immergo (DBAP) over speakers. Interestingly the test subjects preferred the
external speakers.
Yes, I have used the phone?s orientation capabilities to indicate a
sound?s localization, but don?t have a video of it. You can see the layout
https://www.immersivedsp.com/ <https://www.immersivedsp.com/>
Checkboxes at the bottom select the various axes. The purple circle can be
touch-moved for two dimensions, and the white rectangle indicates
height.The blue circles indicate already recorded tracks that move with the
playback of the sound.
Would love to make the London demo and if possible will contact you,
thanks!
by the way have you already done this thing pointing the phone and
indicating a sound in 3d space - if so do you have a link to it ?
This is a pretty crappy video of very early prototype I did a few years
ago
http://youtu.be/7cmodvSM5jE
That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the
flexibility
and capability of Max/MSP.
Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation
determination.
The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle)
around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two
dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the
third
dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone
orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to
indicate the location of the sound.
The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual speaker
arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently
setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a
sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made their
algorithms freely available!!
A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo.
Currently
using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this
system
in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation - I
do
that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on your
hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have a
map
of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive
seen a
lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already
pretty
happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I
couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with
the
AVB system.
One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in real
time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space,
using a
client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and
the
client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you
type
in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a
representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back the
movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the
speakers.
So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels
with
movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed
channels?)
or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio
style),
where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.
Richard.
That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will
go
into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
link
together switches for larger port numbers.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Hi Richard -
So if I have this right no interface is required - just the ethernet
out of
the mac ?
can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you have
to
run
a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each one.
So
for
example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to
the
outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and
each
speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a Merus
audio
Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up
to
120
speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
passive
speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <
http://www
<
http://www/>.
technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
Richard.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill
stick
to
passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a pain
for
larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to them
as
well
as audio.
https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you daisy
chain
them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
ethernet
cable to each one ?
Hi,
I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB input
will
require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet cable.
Perhaps
for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
anything
decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
The available current may power the DAC though.
Ciao,
Dave
Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
Hi Richard -
There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
soundscape is
designed in pre production for this installation and then its
just a
multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other installations I
do
are
interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
around
the
space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB thing
might
be
good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially like
the
way
power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet
cable.....
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachme
nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/>
attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/
mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/
attachment.html>>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/af720501/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/400c9e99/attachment.html>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2017 10:29:54 +0100
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
<CABx2juovoR_b3-kAx_1UaC1i0DU2EbvO3eH_i-
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Richard - Ive also being using the leap a lot - its great but a bit
buggy sometimes when you get outside the infrared area , you can see it
https://vimeo.com/217058501
I had a friend who used the connect which was also fine but a bit buggy.
Do you have a link to the stuff you did with the leap ?
anyway yes Ill message you near the time ,
best,
Gus
That?s an inspiring video, thanks!
And many points of contact. A few years back we used the Microsoft Kinect
to allow for hand control over sound localization, much like you appear
to
be using the wii in the video. This worked well, except for the fact that
the user had to be positioned in a fairly confined area. The mobile
device
control removes this restriction.
Last year we used Unity and the Oculus with the LeapMotion controller to
create a virtual room and move ?grabable? sound sources around it. We
tried
providing the audio over headphones using Unity?s capabilities, and also
Immergo (DBAP) over speakers. Interestingly the test subjects preferred
the
external speakers.
Yes, I have used the phone?s orientation capabilities to indicate a
sound?s localization, but don?t have a video of it. You can see the
layout
https://www.immersivedsp.com/ <https://www.immersivedsp.com/>
Checkboxes at the bottom select the various axes. The purple circle can
be
touch-moved for two dimensions, and the white rectangle indicates
height.The blue circles indicate already recorded tracks that move with
the
playback of the sound.
Would love to make the London demo and if possible will contact you,
thanks!
On 30 Jun 2017, at 10:39 AM, Augustine Leudar <
by the way have you already done this thing pointing the phone and
indicating a sound in 3d space - if so do you have a link to it ?
This is a pretty crappy video of very early prototype I did a few years
ago
http://youtu.be/7cmodvSM5jE
That sounds great Augustine, and fun! Certainly highlights the
flexibility
and capability of Max/MSP.
Immergo uses the gyroscope of the smartphone/tablet for orientation
determination.
The typical mode of working is to touch-move a sound source (circle)
around a representation of the sound space on the screen, for two
dimensional movement, and to tilt the device at the same time for the
third
dimension. You can request that all three axes are provided by phone
orientation though. So then it would be like pointing the device to
indicate the location of the sound.
The rendering algorithm is selectable - DBAP is used for unusual
speaker
arrangements, like an art installation ?tunnel? that we are currently
setting up. But you can select VBAP if the speakers are arranged on a
sphere. Big thank you?s to Trond Lossius and Ville Pulkki who made
their
algorithms freely available!!
A long overdue and pleasurable task is to use Max with Immergo.
Currently
using the Reaper DAW. I will keep you updated.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 11:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Thats pretty impressive Richard - I would definately consider this
system
in future for indoor stuff. In terms of interactive and automation -
I
do
that in MaxMSP mostly - so we have things like an accelerometer on
your
hand and wherever you point there is a sound etc etc - you also have
a
map
of the speakers and pan around that map (using Dbap basically) - Ive
seen a
lot of third party systems that do automation etc - but I am already
pretty
happy with max for interactive 3D audio - theres nothing Ive found I
couldnt do yet ! But I guess I could integrate max easily enough with
the
AVB system.
One other thing - you mentioned wanting to move audio channels in
real
time - you can move up to 32 channels around in the speaker space,
using a
client-server program called Immergo. The server runs on the Mac and
the
client on the Mac or a remote tablet - its web browser based, so you
type
in a URL. You successively select tracks and move them around a
representation of your speaker space. You can record and play back
the
movements. The movements are realized via mixer matrices in the
speakers.
So its two different approaches you can use - pre-prepared channels
with
movement incorporated (guess you would use the terminology ?bed
channels?)
or channels that can be moved via the mixer matrices (object audio
style),
where metadata containing time stamped 3D coords is recorded.
Richard.
That?s correct Augustine - just the Ethernet out the Mac. That will
go
into an Ethernet AVB compliant PoE+ switch (extreme, netgear etc).
The SPK-4Ps will be connected to other ports of the switch. You can
link
together switches for larger port numbers.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 10:25 PM, Augustine Leudar <
Hi Richard -
So if I have this right no interface is required - just the
ethernet
out of
the mac ?
can you daisy chain them (as discrete channels) or would you
have
to
run
a seperate ethernet cable to each one?
You would run a separate Ethernet cable from a switch to each
one.
So
for
example, running a DAW on a Mac, you would output your tracks to
the
outputs made available by the Mac AVB virtual audio entity, and
each
speaker would listen to one of the outputs.
You would use PoE+, not PoE, and each speaker is powered by a
Merus
audio
Eximo amplifier, providing 30W. With the Mac you could connect up
to
120
speakers. You also have the possibility of connecting a separate
passive
speaker to the powered one, providing 2 x 15W.
http://www.technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp-
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/ <
http://www
<
http://www/>.
technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp- <
http://technologyintegrator.net/article/immersivedsp->
integrates-merus-audio-eximo-amp-minidsp-spk-4p-speaker/>
Richard.
On 29 Jun 2017, at 6:38 PM, Augustine Leudar <
aye - and that would kind of defeat the advantage of it - Ill
stick
to
passive for now - Ive always found active speakers a bit of a
pain
for
larger site specific stuff because you have to run power to
them
as
well
as audio.
https://www.immersivedsp.com/products/spk-4p
but Im a bit unsure as to what exactly they can do - can you
daisy
chain
them (as discrete channels) or would you have to run a seperate
ethernet
cable to each one ?
On 29 June 2017 at 17:04, Dave Hunt <
Hi,
I think that you'll find that an active speaker with an AVB
input
will
require more current than can be supplied over an ethernet
cable.
Perhaps
for very small speakers with a low power digital amplifier, but
anything
decent would require mains (or DC batteries) to the speaker.
The available current may power the DAC though.
Ciao,
Dave
Date: 28 June 2017 22:06:52 BDT
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Multichannel players for permanent
installations
Hi Richard -
There is lots of things that pan all around the room but the
soundscape is
designed in pre production for this installation and then its
just a
multichannel file (or seperate mono ones). Other
installations I
do
are
interactive and so sounds are processed and panned in realtime
around
the
space depending on the sensors used etc. Certainly the AVB
thing
might
be
good for some less inhospitable environments- I especially
like
the
way
power can be taken to the the speakers via the ethernet
cable.....
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachme
nts/20170629/0e011d85/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/5b094292/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -
unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/>
attachments/20170629/a3a9354f/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/e501836d/attachment.html <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/
mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170629/e501836d/
attachment.html>>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/73cc7217/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170629/0f8cecf3/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/3edfb95e/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/af720501/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe
here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/400c9e99/attachment.html>
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
edit account or options, view archives and so on.
--
Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/
attachments/20170630/84b89341/attachment.html>
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE
ALSO EDIT THE MESSAGE BODY
------------------------------
End of Sursound Digest, Vol 107, Issue 18
*****************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20170630/72ad31c2/attachment.html>
Loading...