Discussion:
Individualized HRTFs (Augustine Leudar)
(too old to reply)
Gernot von Schultzendorff
2017-11-22 23:13:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Looking through IDA informations there seem to be two different ways to perform the individual scans:
- "Using their smartphone’s camera, users will be able to scan themselves, gathering sufficient data for IDA Audio and Genelec to accurately 3D model and then create the unique HRTF filter set for personal rendering of 3D audio." [https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users <https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users>]
- "An IDA 3D scan can be performed at a licensed IDA ScanStation on a variety of scanners, including structured light, laser, and photogrammetry scanners." [http://idaaudio.com/professionals/ <http://idaaudio.com/professionals/>]

Regarding the import of SOFA files into the ambiX binaural player the Princeton University 3-D Audio & Applied Acoustics Lab has developed the SABRE toolkit specifically for this task (https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/SABREToolkit.html <https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/SABREToolkit.html>). Requires MATLAB knowledge and decisions about interpolation "when measured HRTFs are not available at the desired grid positions". Anyone having experiences with this toolkit?

--
Gernot


>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 09:59:36 +0000
> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com <mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Let us know how you get on with height.... I also wonder how much ground
> and shoulder reflections will count and if subjective visual/cognitive
> assessments of environment affect localisation in a significant way -
> interesting to see. If anthropometrics alone are enough.
>
> On Sunday, 5 November 2017, Marc Lavall?e <***@hacklava.net <mailto:***@hacklava.net>> wrote:
>
>>
>> I had mine done last week, after a few attempts at shooting a suitable
>> video file (it looks easy to do, but it's not). The resulting 3D model
>> is also not as good as the ones shown in the promotional video, so I
>> will probably try again because I suspect that a better video would
>> help to produce a better 3D model, therefore a better HRTF profile.
>>
>> I'm still in the process of evaluating the SOFA file I received (in my
>> free time, something I should continue tomorrow). So far the results
>> are very interesting; it does work. I will try to compare it with some
>> generic HRTFs, and I will report here.
>>
>> One of my problem is the lack of software to use a SOFA file. My
>> evaluation tool is now JSAmbisonics, because it's free (as in speech).
>> I guess I could also use the ambiX binaural player, but that would be
>> more work.
>>
>> --
>> Marc
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 00:07:59 +0000
>> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com <mailto:***@gmail.com> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks interesting - anthropometric approach.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 4 November 2017, Len Moskowitz
>>> <***@optonline.net <mailto:***@optonline.net> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> great sound design but no cigar on the binaural front - thats
>>>> really not
>>>>> going to get solved until a quick and convenient way of measuring
>>>>> HRTFs is designed - I have several in case any millionaires out
>>>>> there are interested
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At the recent AES Exhibition in NYC, IDA was shown:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> idaaudio.com <http://idaaudio.com/>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxf28tinxZg <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxf28tinxZg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Individualized HRTFs, using a smartphone, for under $500.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Someone I trust had his done, and he says it finally allowed him to
>>>> disambiguate between front and rear.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Len Moskowitz (***@core-sound.com <mailto:***@core-sound.com> <javascript:;>)
>>>> Core Sound LLC
>>>> www.core-sound.com <http://www.core-sound.com/>
>>>> Home of TetraMic and OctoMic
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Sursound mailing list
>>>> ***@music.vt.edu <mailto:***@music.vt.edu> <javascript:;>
>>>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
>>>> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Politis Archontis
2017-11-23 09:50:28 UTC
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Raw Message
Hi Gernot,

I haven’t used the toolkit, but I don’t see the reason for HRTF interpolation in a predefined grid - if you generate the spherical harmonic filters for whatever HRTF set you have without interpolation, then all you need in AmbiX is a binaural decoding configuration file with a (N+1)^2 x (N+1)^2 decoding matrix that is a unity matrix (zeros everywhere and ones in the diagonal), along with the (N+1)^2 stereo WAV files of the filters you generated (where N is the order you are going for).

Regards,
Archontis Politis


On 23 Nov 2017, at 01:13, Gernot von Schultzendorff <***@saalakustik.de<mailto:***@saalakustik.de>> wrote:

Looking through IDA informations there seem to be two different ways to perform the individual scans:
- "Using their smartphone’s camera, users will be able to scan themselves, gathering sufficient data for IDA Audio and Genelec to accurately 3D model and then create the unique HRTF filter set for personal rendering of 3D audio." [https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users <https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users>]
- "An IDA 3D scan can be performed at a licensed IDA ScanStation on a variety of scanners, including structured light, laser, and photogrammetry scanners." [http://idaaudio.com/professionals/ <http://idaaudio.com/professionals/>]

Regarding the import of SOFA files into the ambiX binaural player the Princeton University 3-D Audio & Applied Acoustics Lab has developed the SABRE toolkit specifically for this task (https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/SABREToolkit.html <https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/SABREToolkit.html>). Requires MATLAB knowledge and decisions about interpolation "when measured HRTFs are not available at the desired grid positions". Anyone having experiences with this toolkit?

--
Gernot



On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 09:59:36 +0000
Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com> <mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:

Let us know how you get on with height.... I also wonder how much ground
and shoulder reflections will count and if subjective visual/cognitive
assessments of environment affect localisation in a significant way -
interesting to see. If anthropometrics alone are enough.

On Sunday, 5 November 2017, Marc Lavall?e <***@hacklava.net<mailto:***@hacklava.net> <mailto:***@hacklava.net>> wrote:


I had mine done last week, after a few attempts at shooting a suitable
video file (it looks easy to do, but it's not). The resulting 3D model
is also not as good as the ones shown in the promotional video, so I
will probably try again because I suspect that a better video would
help to produce a better 3D model, therefore a better HRTF profile.

I'm still in the process of evaluating the SOFA file I received (in my
free time, something I should continue tomorrow). So far the results
are very interesting; it does work. I will try to compare it with some
generic HRTFs, and I will report here.

One of my problem is the lack of software to use a SOFA file. My
evaluation tool is now JSAmbisonics, because it's free (as in speech).
I guess I could also use the ambiX binaural player, but that would be
more work.

--
Marc

On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 00:07:59 +0000
Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.com> <mailto:***@gmail.com> <javascript:;>> wrote:

Looks interesting - anthropometric approach.

On Saturday, 4 November 2017, Len Moskowitz
<***@optonline.net<mailto:***@optonline.net> <mailto:***@optonline.net> <javascript:;>> wrote:

Augustine Leudar wrote:


great sound design but no cigar on the binaural front - thats
really not
going to get solved until a quick and convenient way of measuring
HRTFs is designed - I have several in case any millionaires out
there are interested



At the recent AES Exhibition in NYC, IDA was shown:


idaaudio.com<http://idaaudio.com> <http://idaaudio.com/>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxf28tinxZg <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxf28tinxZg>


Individualized HRTFs, using a smartphone, for under $500.


Someone I trust had his done, and he says it finally allowed him to
disambiguate between front and rear.





Len Moskowitz (***@core-sound.com<mailto:***@core-sound.com> <mailto:***@core-sound.com> <javascript:;>)
Core Sound LLC
www.core-sound.com<http://www.core-sound.com> <http://www.core-sound.com/>
Home of TetraMic and OctoMic

_______________________________________________
Sursound mailing list
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https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.




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edit account or options, view archives and so on.



--
Dr. Augustine Leudar
Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Augustine Leudar
2017-11-23 10:00:15 UTC
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Does it measure ITDs and ILDs as well or just the Pinna ? I would like to
try it anyway - but retain slight skepticism for now......

On 23 November 2017 at 09:50, Politis Archontis <***@aalto.fi>
wrote:

> Hi Gernot,
>
> I haven’t used the toolkit, but I don’t see the reason for HRTF
> interpolation in a predefined grid - if you generate the spherical harmonic
> filters for whatever HRTF set you have without interpolation, then all you
> need in AmbiX is a binaural decoding configuration file with a (N+1)^2 x
> (N+1)^2 decoding matrix that is a unity matrix (zeros everywhere and ones
> in the diagonal), along with the (N+1)^2 stereo WAV files of the filters
> you generated (where N is the order you are going for).
>
> Regards,
> Archontis Politis
>
>
> On 23 Nov 2017, at 01:13, Gernot von Schultzendorff <
> ***@saalakustik.de<mailto:***@saalakustik.de>>
> wrote:
>
> Looking through IDA informations there seem to be two different ways to
> perform the individual scans:
> - "Using their smartphone’s camera, users will be able to scan themselves,
> gathering sufficient data for IDA Audio and Genelec to accurately 3D model
> and then create the unique HRTF filter set for personal rendering of 3D
> audio." [https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-
> redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users <
> https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-redefine-immersive-3d-audio-
> professional-headphone-users>]
> - "An IDA 3D scan can be performed at a licensed IDA ScanStation on a
> variety of scanners, including structured light, laser, and photogrammetry
> scanners." [http://idaaudio.com/professionals/ <http://idaaudio.com/
> professionals/>]
>
> Regarding the import of SOFA files into the ambiX binaural player the
> Princeton University 3-D Audio & Applied Acoustics Lab has developed the
> SABRE toolkit specifically for this task (https://www.princeton.edu/
> 3D3A/SABREToolkit.html <https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/SABREToolkit.html>).
> Requires MATLAB knowledge and decisions about interpolation "when measured
> HRTFs are not available at the desired grid positions". Anyone having
> experiences with this toolkit?
>
> --
> Gernot
>
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 09:59:36 +0000
> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.
> com> <mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Let us know how you get on with height.... I also wonder how much ground
> and shoulder reflections will count and if subjective visual/cognitive
> assessments of environment affect localisation in a significant way -
> interesting to see. If anthropometrics alone are enough.
>
> On Sunday, 5 November 2017, Marc Lavall?e <***@hacklava.net<mailto:marc
> @hacklava.net> <mailto:***@hacklava.net>> wrote:
>
>
> I had mine done last week, after a few attempts at shooting a suitable
> video file (it looks easy to do, but it's not). The resulting 3D model
> is also not as good as the ones shown in the promotional video, so I
> will probably try again because I suspect that a better video would
> help to produce a better 3D model, therefore a better HRTF profile.
>
> I'm still in the process of evaluating the SOFA file I received (in my
> free time, something I should continue tomorrow). So far the results
> are very interesting; it does work. I will try to compare it with some
> generic HRTFs, and I will report here.
>
> One of my problem is the lack of software to use a SOFA file. My
> evaluation tool is now JSAmbisonics, because it's free (as in speech).
> I guess I could also use the ambiX binaural player, but that would be
> more work.
>
> --
> Marc
>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 00:07:59 +0000
> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.
> com> <mailto:***@gmail.com> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> Looks interesting - anthropometric approach.
>
> On Saturday, 4 November 2017, Len Moskowitz
> <***@optonline.net<mailto:***@optonline.net> <mailto:
> ***@optonline.net> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>
>
> great sound design but no cigar on the binaural front - thats
> really not
> going to get solved until a quick and convenient way of measuring
> HRTFs is designed - I have several in case any millionaires out
> there are interested
>
>
>
> At the recent AES Exhibition in NYC, IDA was shown:
>
>
> idaaudio.com<http://idaaudio.com> <http://idaaudio.com/>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxf28tinxZg <https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=pxf28tinxZg>
>
>
> Individualized HRTFs, using a smartphone, for under $500.
>
>
> Someone I trust had his done, and he says it finally allowed him to
> disambiguate between front and rear.
>
>
>
>
>
> Len Moskowitz (***@core-sound.com<mailto:***@core-sound.com>
> <mailto:***@core-sound.com> <javascript:;>)
> Core Sound LLC
> www.core-sound.com<http://www.core-sound.com> <http://www.core-sound.com/>
> Home of TetraMic and OctoMic
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu<mailto:***@music.vt.edu> <mailto:
> ***@music.vt.edu> <javascript:;>
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sursound mailing list
> ***@music.vt.edu<mailto:***@music.vt.edu> <mailto:
> ***@music.vt.edu> <javascript:;>
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
Company Number : NI635217
Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
Belfast BT88LL
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Politis Archontis
2017-11-23 10:15:30 UTC
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Raw Message
I had my head & shoulders scanned in the past and my HRTFs produced by IDA have worked very well for me.
Unless they have changed their approach, and as far as I know, they do not measure features or try to match anthropometric dimensions to HRTFs in a database (which is still problematic since matching of specific anthropometric features to the fine structure of the HRTF is still an open research question), instead they do a full computational acoustic simulation of the HRTFs that takes into account the whole scan as it is.

Regards,
Archontis Politis

> On 23 Nov 2017, at 12:00, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Does it measure ITDs and ILDs as well or just the Pinna ? I would like to
> try it anyway - but retain slight skepticism for now......
>
> On 23 November 2017 at 09:50, Politis Archontis <***@aalto.fi>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Gernot,
>>
>> I haven’t used the toolkit, but I don’t see the reason for HRTF
>> interpolation in a predefined grid - if you generate the spherical harmonic
>> filters for whatever HRTF set you have without interpolation, then all you
>> need in AmbiX is a binaural decoding configuration file with a (N+1)^2 x
>> (N+1)^2 decoding matrix that is a unity matrix (zeros everywhere and ones
>> in the diagonal), along with the (N+1)^2 stereo WAV files of the filters
>> you generated (where N is the order you are going for).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Archontis Politis
>>
>>
>> On 23 Nov 2017, at 01:13, Gernot von Schultzendorff <
>> ***@saalakustik.de<mailto:***@saalakustik.de>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Looking through IDA informations there seem to be two different ways to
>> perform the individual scans:
>> - "Using their smartphone’s camera, users will be able to scan themselves,
>> gathering sufficient data for IDA Audio and Genelec to accurately 3D model
>> and then create the unique HRTF filter set for personal rendering of 3D
>> audio." [https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-
>> redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users <
>> https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-redefine-immersive-3d-audio-
>> professional-headphone-users>]
>> - "An IDA 3D scan can be performed at a licensed IDA ScanStation on a
>> variety of scanners, including structured light, laser, and photogrammetry
>> scanners." [http://idaaudio.com/professionals/ <http://idaaudio.com/
>> professionals/>]
>>
>> Regarding the import of SOFA files into the ambiX binaural player the
>> Princeton University 3-D Audio & Applied Acoustics Lab has developed the
>> SABRE toolkit specifically for this task (https://www.princeton.edu/
>> 3D3A/SABREToolkit.html <https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/SABREToolkit.html>).
>> Requires MATLAB knowledge and decisions about interpolation "when measured
>> HRTFs are not available at the desired grid positions". Anyone having
>> experiences with this toolkit?
>>
>> --
>> Gernot
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 09:59:36 +0000
>> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.
>> com> <mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Let us know how you get on with height.... I also wonder how much ground
>> and shoulder reflections will count and if subjective visual/cognitive
>> assessments of environment affect localisation in a significant way -
>> interesting to see. If anthropometrics alone are enough.
>>
>> On Sunday, 5 November 2017, Marc Lavall?e <***@hacklava.net<mailto:marc
>> @hacklava.net> <mailto:***@hacklava.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I had mine done last week, after a few attempts at shooting a suitable
>> video file (it looks easy to do, but it's not). The resulting 3D model
>> is also not as good as the ones shown in the promotional video, so I
>> will probably try again because I suspect that a better video would
>> help to produce a better 3D model, therefore a better HRTF profile.
>>
>> I'm still in the process of evaluating the SOFA file I received (in my
>> free time, something I should continue tomorrow). So far the results
>> are very interesting; it does work. I will try to compare it with some
>> generic HRTFs, and I will report here.
>>
>> One of my problem is the lack of software to use a SOFA file. My
>> evaluation tool is now JSAmbisonics, because it's free (as in speech).
>> I guess I could also use the ambiX binaural player, but that would be
>> more work.
>>
>> --
>> Marc
>>
>> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 00:07:59 +0000
>> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com<mailto:***@gmail.
>> com> <mailto:***@gmail.com> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>
>> Looks interesting - anthropometric approach.
>>
>> On Saturday, 4 November 2017, Len Moskowitz
>> <***@optonline.net<mailto:***@optonline.net> <mailto:
>> ***@optonline.net> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>
>> Augustine Leudar wrote:
>>
>>
>> great sound design but no cigar on the binaural front - thats
>> really not
>> going to get solved until a quick and convenient way of measuring
>> HRTFs is designed - I have several in case any millionaires out
>> there are interested
>>
>>
>>
>> At the recent AES Exhibition in NYC, IDA was shown:
>>
>>
>> idaaudio.com<http://idaaudio.com> <http://idaaudio.com/>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxf28tinxZg <https://www.youtube.com/
>> watch?v=pxf28tinxZg>
>>
>>
>> Individualized HRTFs, using a smartphone, for under $500.
>>
>>
>> Someone I trust had his done, and he says it finally allowed him to
>> disambiguate between front and rear.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Len Moskowitz (***@core-sound.com<mailto:***@core-sound.com>
>> <mailto:***@core-sound.com> <javascript:;>)
>> Core Sound LLC
>> www.core-sound.com<http://www.core-sound.com> <http://www.core-sound.com/>
>> Home of TetraMic and OctoMic
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sursound mailing list
>> ***@music.vt.edu<mailto:***@music.vt.edu> <mailto:
>> ***@music.vt.edu> <javascript:;>
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
>> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sursound mailing list
>> ***@music.vt.edu<mailto:***@music.vt.edu> <mailto:
>> ***@music.vt.edu> <javascript:;>
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
>> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe here,
>> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Augustine Leudar
>> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
>> Company Number : NI635217
>> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
>> Belfast BT88LL
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>> WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE
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>>
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>> ****************************************
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>
>
>
> --
> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> Company Number : NI635217
> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> Belfast BT88LL
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Antti Vanne
2017-11-23 12:08:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,

I can confirm that we (at IDA) do the acoustic simulation for the
torso+head+pinnae mesh, using the exact anatomy of the individual. Pinnae
are quite important parts and that's why we show comparison between the
actual pinna and reconstructed one in the demo video since we're a bit
proud of how well the 3d reconstruction works on such small details and
cavities. Based on our experience there is pinna features that would
require special measurement instruments if there wasn't 3d scanning
possibility.

We've had very good feedback of mobile scanned HRTFs so far. One of the
people even had a 1680 direction HRTF measured acoustically for comparison.
Both measured and IDA simulated perform equally well.

I'm happy to answer any questions regarding IDA service.



On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Politis Archontis <
***@aalto.fi> wrote:

> I had my head & shoulders scanned in the past and my HRTFs produced by IDA
> have worked very well for me.
> Unless they have changed their approach, and as far as I know, they do not
> measure features or try to match anthropometric dimensions to HRTFs in a
> database (which is still problematic since matching of specific
> anthropometric features to the fine structure of the HRTF is still an open
> research question), instead they do a full computational acoustic
> simulation of the HRTFs that takes into account the whole scan as it is.
>
> Regards,
> Archontis Politis
>
> > On 23 Nov 2017, at 12:00, Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Does it measure ITDs and ILDs as well or just the Pinna ? I would like to
> > try it anyway - but retain slight skepticism for now......
> >
> > On 23 November 2017 at 09:50, Politis Archontis <
> ***@aalto.fi>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Gernot,
> >>
> >> I haven’t used the toolkit, but I don’t see the reason for HRTF
> >> interpolation in a predefined grid - if you generate the spherical
> harmonic
> >> filters for whatever HRTF set you have without interpolation, then all
> you
> >> need in AmbiX is a binaural decoding configuration file with a (N+1)^2 x
> >> (N+1)^2 decoding matrix that is a unity matrix (zeros everywhere and
> ones
> >> in the diagonal), along with the (N+1)^2 stereo WAV files of the filters
> >> you generated (where N is the order you are going for).
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Archontis Politis
> >>
> >>
> >> On 23 Nov 2017, at 01:13, Gernot von Schultzendorff <
> >> ***@saalakustik.de<mailto:***@saalakustik.de
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Looking through IDA informations there seem to be two different ways to
> >> perform the individual scans:
> >> - "Using their smartphone’s camera, users will be able to scan
> themselves,
> >> gathering sufficient data for IDA Audio and Genelec to accurately 3D
> model
> >> and then create the unique HRTF filter set for personal rendering of 3D
> >> audio." [https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-
> >> redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users <
> >> https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-
> redefine-immersive-3d-audio-
> >> professional-headphone-users>]
> >> - "An IDA 3D scan can be performed at a licensed IDA ScanStation on a
> >> variety of scanners, including structured light, laser, and
> photogrammetry
> >> scanners." [http://idaaudio.com/professionals/ <http://idaaudio.com/
> >> professionals/>]
> >>
> >> Regarding the import of SOFA files into the ambiX binaural player the
> >> Princeton University 3-D Audio & Applied Acoustics Lab has developed the
> >> SABRE toolkit specifically for this task (https://www.princeton.edu/
> >> 3D3A/SABREToolkit.html <https://www.princeton.edu/
> 3D3A/SABREToolkit.html>).
> >> Requires MATLAB knowledge and decisions about interpolation "when
> measured
> >> HRTFs are not available at the desired grid positions". Anyone having
> >> experiences with this toolkit?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gernot
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 09:59:36 +0000
> >> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com<mailto:
> ***@gmail.
> >> com> <mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Let us know how you get on with height.... I also wonder how much
> ground
> >> and shoulder reflections will count and if subjective visual/cognitive
> >> assessments of environment affect localisation in a significant way -
> >> interesting to see. If anthropometrics alone are enough.
> >>
> >> On Sunday, 5 November 2017, Marc Lavall?e <***@hacklava.net<mailto:
> marc
> >> @hacklava.net> <mailto:***@hacklava.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I had mine done last week, after a few attempts at shooting a suitable
> >> video file (it looks easy to do, but it's not). The resulting 3D model
> >> is also not as good as the ones shown in the promotional video, so I
> >> will probably try again because I suspect that a better video would
> >> help to produce a better 3D model, therefore a better HRTF profile.
> >>
> >> I'm still in the process of evaluating the SOFA file I received (in my
> >> free time, something I should continue tomorrow). So far the results
> >> are very interesting; it does work. I will try to compare it with some
> >> generic HRTFs, and I will report here.
> >>
> >> One of my problem is the lack of software to use a SOFA file. My
> >> evaluation tool is now JSAmbisonics, because it's free (as in speech).
> >> I guess I could also use the ambiX binaural player, but that would be
> >> more work.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Marc
> >>
> >> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 00:07:59 +0000
> >> Augustine Leudar <***@gmail.com<mailto:
> ***@gmail.
> >> com> <mailto:***@gmail.com> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Looks interesting - anthropometric approach.
> >>
> >> On Saturday, 4 November 2017, Len Moskowitz
> >> <***@optonline.net<mailto:***@optonline.net> <mailto:
> >> ***@optonline.net> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Augustine Leudar wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> great sound design but no cigar on the binaural front - thats
> >> really not
> >> going to get solved until a quick and convenient way of measuring
> >> HRTFs is designed - I have several in case any millionaires out
> >> there are interested
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At the recent AES Exhibition in NYC, IDA was shown:
> >>
> >>
> >> idaaudio.com<http://idaaudio.com> <http://idaaudio.com/>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxf28tinxZg <https://www.youtube.com/
> >> watch?v=pxf28tinxZg>
> >>
> >>
> >> Individualized HRTFs, using a smartphone, for under $500.
> >>
> >>
> >> Someone I trust had his done, and he says it finally allowed him to
> >> disambiguate between front and rear.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Len Moskowitz (***@core-sound.com<mailto:***@core-sound.com>
> >> <mailto:***@core-sound.com> <javascript:;>)
> >> Core Sound LLC
> >> www.core-sound.com<http://www.core-sound.com> <
> http://www.core-sound.com/>
> >> Home of TetraMic and OctoMic
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> ***@music.vt.edu<mailto:***@music.vt.edu> <mailto:
> >> ***@music.vt.edu> <javascript:;>
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
> >> here, edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> ***@music.vt.edu<mailto:***@music.vt.edu> <mailto:
> >> ***@music.vt.edu> <javascript:;>
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound> - unsubscribe
> here,
> >> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dr. Augustine Leudar
> >> Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> >> Company Number : NI635217
> >> Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> >> Belfast BT88LL
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> attachment.html>>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Sursound mailing list
> >> ***@music.vt.edu<mailto:***@music.vt.edu> <mailto:
> >> ***@music.vt.edu>
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound <
> >> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound>
> >>
> >> WHEN REPLYING EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE
> >>
> >> ALSO EDIT THE MESSAGE BODY
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of Sursound Digest, Vol 112, Issue 5
> >> ****************************************
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Augustine Leudar
> > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD
> > Company Number : NI635217
> > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd,
> > Belfast BT88LL
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> > ***@music.vt.edu
> > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> ***@music.vt.edu
> https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe here,
> edit account or options, view archives and so on.
>



--
Antti Vanne
OwnSurround Ltd / IDA Audio
CEO

Haapaniemenkatu 40
<https://maps.google.com/?q=Haapaniemenkatu+40&entry=gmail&source=g> E 1
70110 Kuopio
Finland

Mobile: +358 50 3566 744
Email: ***@ownsurround.com <***@ownsurround.com>
Twitter: @nahkiz
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Joseph G. Tylka
2017-11-24 23:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi all,

Just thought I'd chime in as the author of the mentioned toolkit
<https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/SABREToolkit.html> - I'm happy to answer
any questions anyone might have and to try to help you get it up and
running if needed.

Regarding the spherical harmonic HRTF (SH-HRTF) approach described by
Archontis, we've implemented this as the default in the toolkit. If you
don't specify a desired virtual "speaker" grid, then the entire HRTF
measurement set is used, and a "compact" decoder is created. This process
is exactly what Archontis described: the decoder matrix becomes the
identity matrix, and each ambisonic signal is filtered by corresponding the
spherical-harmonic term of the HRTF (see Sec. 3.3 of the manual
<https://github.com/PrincetonUniversity/3D3A-SABRE-Toolkit/blob/master/doc/SABRE_Manual.pdf>).
Hopefully, the toolkit should streamline and simplify this process for the
ambiX plug-in.

In my experience, however, the SH-HRTF approach can sometimes yield a
"blurry" 3D image (for example, compared to an only slightly oversampled
virtual speaker grid - e.g., 36 speakers for 4th order decoding). I haven't
fully sorted out why this happens yet, so I'd be interested to hear
anyone's thoughts on it; my guess is that this has to do with the time
alignment of the measured HRIRs. (Since the SH-HRIRs are linear
combinations of the measured HRIRs, improper time alignment of the
measurements will just spread out the resulting IR.)

Also, HRTF sets with only partial coverage of the sphere might not give
very good SH-HRTFs (depending on the order, of course) due to the poor
conditioning in the SH matrix. In those cases, it might actually be better
to use a subset of the measured HRIRs for most of the sphere, and then
interpolate a few extra directions (e.g., below the listener) where no
measurements exist. Then localization in at least the measured directions
should be good.

Anyways, those are just my two cents, and it's why I kept the toolkit
flexible since I felt like these issues might be worth exploring. I'd be
curious to hear anyone else's thoughts on them.

Thanks,

Joe


On 23 November 2017 at 09:50, Politis Archontis <***@aalto.fi>
wrote:

Hi Gernot,


> I haven?t used the toolkit, but I don?t see the reason for HRTF
> interpolation in a predefined grid - if you generate the spherical harmonic
> filters for whatever HRTF set you have without interpolation, then all you
> need in AmbiX is a binaural decoding configuration file with a (N+1)^2 x
> (N+1)^2 decoding matrix that is a unity matrix (zeros everywhere and ones
> in the diagonal), along with the (N+1)^2 stereo WAV files of the filters
> you generated (where N is the order you are going for).


> Regards,
> Archontis Politis
>
> On 23 Nov 2017, at 01:13, Gernot von Schultzendorff <
> ***@saalakustik.de<mailto:***@saalakustik.de>>
> wrote:


> Looking through IDA informations there seem to be two different ways to
>> perform the individual scans:
>> - "Using their smartphone?s camera, users will be able to scan
>> themselves, gathering sufficient data for IDA Audio and Genelec to
>> accurately 3D model and then create the unique HRTF filter set for personal
>> rendering of 3D audio." [https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-
>> redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users <
>> https://www.genelec.com/genelec-and-ida-audio-
>> redefine-immersive-3d-audio-professional-headphone-users>]
>> - "An IDA 3D scan can be performed at a licensed IDA ScanStation on a
>> variety of scanners, including structured light, laser, and photogrammetry
>> scanners." [http://idaaudio.com/professionals/<http://idaaudio.com/
>> professionals/>]
>
>
>
> Regarding the import of SOFA files into the ambiX binaural player the
>> Princeton University 3-D Audio & Applied Acoustics Lab has developed the
>> SABRE toolkit specifically for this task (https://www.princeton.edu/
>> 3D3A/SABREToolkit.html <https://www.princeton.edu/3D3A/SABREToolkit.html>).
>> Requires MATLAB knowledge and decisions about interpolation "when measured
>> HRTFs are not available at the desired grid positions". Anyone having
>> experiences with this toolkit?
>
>
>
> --
>> Gernot
>
>
>
--
Joseph G. Tylka
Doctoral Candidate in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering
3-D Audio & Applied Acoustics Laboratory
Princeton University
***@princeton.edu
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